Posted on 07/24/2003 1:55:39 PM PDT by Mr.Atos
I was just lisening to Medved debating Creationism with Athiests on the air. I found it interesting that while Medved argued his side quite effectively from the standpoint of faith, his opponents resorted to condescension and beliitled him with statements like, "when it rains, is that God crying?" I was reminded of the best (at least most amusing)debate that I have ever heard on the subject of Creationism vs Evolution, albeit a fictional setting. It occurred on the show, Friends of all places between the characters Pheobe (The Hippy) and Ross (The Paleontologist). It went like this...
Pheebs: Okay...it's very faint, but I can still sense him in the building...GO INTO THE LIGHT MR. HECKLES!!
Ross: Whoa, whoa, whoa. What, uh, you don't believe in evolution? Pheebs: Nah. Not really. Ross: You don't believe in evolution? Pheebs: I don't know. It's just, ya know, monkeys, Darwin, ya know, it's a, it's a nice story. I just think it's a little too easy.
Ross: Uh, excuse me. Evolution is not for you to buy, Phoebe. Evolution is scientific fact. Like, like, the air we breathe, like gravity... Pheebs: Uh, okay, don't get me started on gravity.
Ross: You uh, you don't believe in gravity? Pheebs: Well, it's not so much that ya know, like I don't *believe* in it, ya know. It's just...I don't know. Lately I get the feeling that I'm not so much being pulled down, as I am being pushed.
Ross: How can you NOT BELIEVE in evolution? Pheebs: [shrugs] I unh-huh...Look at this funky shirt!!
Ross: Well, there ya go. Pheebs: Huh. So now, the REAL question is: who put those fossils there, and why...?
Ross: OPPOSABLE THUMBS!! Without evolution, how do YOU explain OPPOSABLE THUMBS?!? Pheebs: Maybe the overlords needed them to steer their spacecrafts!
Pheebs: Uh-oh! Scary Scientist Man!
Pheebs: Okay, Ross? Could you just open your mind like, *this* much?? Okay? Now wasn't there a time when the brightest minds in the world believed that the Earth was flat? And up until what, like, fifty years ago, you all thought the atom was the smallest thing, until you split it open, and this like, whole mess o' crap came out! Now, are you telling me that you are so unbelievably arrogant that you can't admit that there's a teeny, tiny possibility that you could be wrong about this?!?
Pheebs: I can't believe you caved. Ross: What? Pheebs: You just ABANDONED your whole belief system! I mean, before, I didn't agree with you, but at least I respected you. Ross: But uh.. Pheebs: Yeah...how...how are you gonna go in to work tomorrow? How...how are you gonna face the other science guys? How...how are you gonna face yourself? Oh! [Ross runs away dejected] Pheebs: That was fun. So who's hungry?
1. opposition to a literal interpretation of Genesis (or other scripture passages);
2. opposition to "creation science" or to "intelligent design theory";
3. advocacy of the theory evolution;
4. posting any evolution-oriented thread;
5. advocacy of (or merely explaining) the scientific method;
6. or any similar activities.
Selection does not create any new genetic information, it destroys it. You do not create information by killing the individuals carrying it. Rearranging the chairs on the Titanic will not make it stay afloat either.
Nonsense. Mendel showed quite well how unscientific the Theory of Evolution was, he showed that Darwin did not know beans and that his theory of 'melding' of traits was absolute nonsense. It took evolutionists decades to recover from it through plenty of wishful thinking and rhetoric. But in the end and with what we have learned since the discovery of DNA, the genetics problem totally disproves evolution.
But in good evo form you mis-read my intent!!!
The only thing that should be dropped and ancient history here is you.
I read your post #508. Your 'confession' is reminiscent of Bill Clinton's 'confession' where he 'admits' his disgusting behavior, but then continues to blame others and sticks harder than ever to his conspiracy theory.
Just like you. No difference. Incredibly similar.
I want you to tell me straight to my internet face once again that I personally contrived a thread, a reason, a trap, etc...or, as you say, "So the "evo trap" disguised as a bible thread worked as intended."
Do you have the courage to say that again now? Now that I had a chance to defend myself? After being blatantly accused of being an insincere, calculating, intentional disruptor?
You didn't even have the courage to copy me on your thread to Alamo-Girl, or the reply. How cowardly.
And now, in perfect Clintonesque fashion, you want to 'mooooove on'
It's not ancient history. It is the true ongoing indicator of your lack of integrity. It's apparent to all why you want to move on.
Indeed, move on is what you should do. Elsewhere. You've been exposed.
You state this...
Fundamentalist spree, NOT christian, the joke that you posted has EVERYTHING to do with Catholicism, not fundamentalism.
....which, in effect, calls Fundamentalists (as well as Catholics) "NOT christian". This statement couldn't be any further from the truth. Fundamentalists (by definition) are the epitome of Christianity. Catholics are also believers of Jesus CHRIST...hence the term CHRISTianity.
And as far as Junior's remarks that Fundamentalists are a small group of Christians, I beg to differ... particularly amongst FReepers. I dare him to say such a thing on a news thread (that would be read by more FReepers). It's my firm belief he would surprised.
< /civilrant >
6. or any similar activities. is another way of saying "whatever I say is OK".
Why is that? Maybe because you didn't want people to go back and read the truth?
Interesting...
Given that mutations happen, the change need not be a change in the environment. Any change in an individual that renders that individual more fit for the niche will lead to increased offspring for that individual, ergo change in the population.
I have no such desire, nor does anything in the draft agreement suggest such a desire. -- A-G
I am amazed, A-G, that Doc could have found anything in your proposal to justify his interpretation, that you are "dictating" what he can "say" about science. Presumably, anything that Doc would say about science would be truthful. So who could object to that? I'm certain not you, and also certain not me.
I'll sign on to your draft agreement without hesitation, A-G.
How is what you write any different than what I have been stating over these many posts? When you use the words "more fit" you use them in relation to a point of stability. That drives them closer to the stable point not farther away. Now the consequence of having a stable point means that it has to be described in some way. Without a limiting factor, for instance, a longer jaw benefit will drive everything towards ever larger jaws. If the "best" jaw length is 1 meter, then everything will be driven towards 1 meter from every direction.
I officially sign on too.
Well, they have lost some of their wasp characteristics, like permanent wings.
No, as I understand mutations there is never stability, per se. The target is always moving.
If the "best" jaw length is 1 meter, then everything will be driven towards 1 meter from every direction.
I have no idea what the above sentence means. What does "best jaw length" mean? What does "everything will be driven" mean?
In evolution, as in everything else, there are trade-offs.
Jaws need muscles to open them and close them. Jaw muscles need to be anchored to the skull. There needs to be a tongue proportionate to the jaw, and the tongue is also anchored to the skull. There are sinus cavities, and nerves and blood vessels and skin, and countless other bits and pieces. Teeth. Tooth sockets. A random mutation in the length of the jaw bone doesn't carry everything else along with it.
Lengthening the jaw will probably increase the ability to shred meat but decrease the ability to chew, by throwing the muscles out of whack, so the ability to utilize food sources will change.
Lengthening the jaw without lengthening the tongue will make it harder to swallow. Lengthening the jaw without lengthening the sinus cavities will make it harder to breathe.
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