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If Secession Was Illegal - then How Come...?
The Patriotist ^ | 2003 | Al Benson, Jr.

Posted on 06/12/2003 5:58:28 AM PDT by Aurelius

Over the years I've heard many rail at the South for seceding from the 'glorious Union.' They claim that Jeff Davis and all Southerners were really nothing but traitors - and some of these people were born and raised in the South and should know better, but don't, thanks to their government school 'education.'

Frank Conner, in his excellent book The South Under Siege 1830-2000 deals in some detail with the question of Davis' alleged 'treason.' In referring to the Northern leaders he noted: "They believed the most logical means of justifying the North's war would be to have the federal government convict Davis of treason against the United States. Such a conviction must presuppose that the Confederate States could not have seceded from the Union; so convicting Davis would validate the war and make it morally legitimate."

Although this was the way the federal government planned to proceed, that prolific South-hater, Thaddeus Stevens, couldn't keep his mouth shut and he let the cat out of the bag. Stevens said: "The Southerners should be treated as a conquered alien enemy...This can be done without violence to the established principles only on the theory that the Southern states were severed from the Union and were an independent government de facto and an alien enemy to be dealt with according to the laws of war...No reform can be effected in the Southern States if they have never left the Union..." And, although he did not plainly say it, what Stevens really desired was that the Christian culture of the Old South be 'reformed' into something more compatible with his beliefs. No matter how you look at it, the feds tried to have it both ways - they claimed the South was in rebellion and had never been out of the Union, but then it had to do certain things to 'get back' into the Union it had never been out of. Strange, is it not, that the 'history' books never seem to pick up on this?

At any rate, the Northern government prepared to try President Davis for treason while it had him in prison. Mr. Conner has observed that: "The War Department presented its evidence for a treason trial against Davis to a famed jurist, Francis Lieber, for his analysis. Lieber pronounced 'Davis will not be found guilty and we shall stand there completely beaten'." According to Mr. Conner, U.S. Attorney General James Speed appointed a renowned attorney, John J. Clifford, as his chief prosecutor. Clifford, after studying the government's evidence against Davis, withdrew from the case. He said he had 'grave doubts' about it. Not to be undone, Speed then appointed Richard Henry Dana, a prominent maritime lawyer, to the case. Mr. Dana also withdrew. He said basically, that as long as the North had won a military victory over the South, they should just be satisfied with that. In other words - "you won the war, boys, so don't push your luck beyond that."

Mr. Conner tells us that: "In 1866 President Johnson appointed a new U.S. attorney general, Henry Stanburg. But Stanburg wouldn't touch the case either. Thus had spoken the North's best and brightest jurists re the legitimacy of the War of Northern Aggression - even though the Jefferson Davis case offered blinding fame to the prosecutor who could prove that the South had seceded unconstitutionally." None of these bright lights from the North would touch this case with a ten-foot pole. It's not that they were dumb, in fact the reverse is true. These men knew a dead horse when they saw it and were not about to climb aboard and attempt to ride it across the treacherous stream of illegal secession. They knew better. In fact, a Northerner from New York, Charles O'Connor, became the legal counsel for Jeff Davis - without charge. That, plus the celebrity jurists from the North that refused to touch the case, told the federal government that they really had no case against Davis or secession and that Davis was merely being held as a political prisoner.

Author Richard Street, writing in The Civil War back in the 1950s said exactly the same thing. Referring to Jeff Davis, Street wrote: "He was imprisoned after the war, was never brought to trial. The North didn't dare give him a trial, knowing that a trial would establish that secession was not unconstitutional, that there had been no 'rebellion' and that the South had got a raw deal." At one point the government intimated that it would be willing to offer Davis a pardon, should he ask for one. Davis refused that and he demanded that the government either give him a pardon or give him a trial, or admit that they had dealt unjustly with him. Mr. Street said: "He died 'unpardoned' by a government that was leery of giving him a public hearing." If Davis was as guilty as they claimed, why no trial???

Had the federal government had any possible chance to convict Davis and therefore declare secession unconstitutional they would have done so in a New York minute. The fact that they diddled around and finally released him without benefit of the trial he wanted proves that the North had no real case against secession. Over 600,000 boys, both North and South, were killed or maimed so the North could fight a war of conquest over something that the South did that was neither illegal or wrong. Yet they claim the moral high ground because the 'freed' the slaves, a farce at best.


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To: Tribune7
"But the South did fire on Fort Sumter, and in their infinite wisdom, manage to start a war."

They could have been smarter, but Lincoln maneuvered them into it. He would have had his war in any case; it just would have been preferable had responsibility lain plainly with him.

61 posted on 06/12/2003 9:21:16 AM PDT by Aurelius
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To: Grand Old Partisan
FYI
62 posted on 06/12/2003 9:26:44 AM PDT by Aurelius
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To: Aurelius
The war was fought so that 50-80 years later there would be a economic and military power house to counter balance the Isms of Europe(Nazism, communism). (and to help Israel back into being). Only a strong federal union with a large population of morally directed people could be that buffer between a semblance of international order and total chaos and barbarity!
It was also about freedom for blacks sure enough but more than that, it was God, seeing beyond the page of time. Had the United States remained divided, and had everything else remained the same in Europe(the same trends towards philosophical and scientific secularism), history would have been decidedly different. There would be no Jews or Christians left alive, and the world early would be brutally maimed by the competing isms; the competing Isms would have been the most barbaric(like choosing caustic poison or slow painful garroting as you form of death) in terms of their governments and there would be no freedoms. Nuclear suicide would have been the result. Look at what the Civil War really saved us from(or at least forestalled)and you begin to see where God is truly active in the affairs of man. Look at the big picture of the resulting history after the war and you see God still on his throne.("man proposes but God disposes...")

Another example...what end of trouble would the Isrealites have had if the flower of Egyptian military might and Pharoah(even had they escaped to the promised Land)had not been destroyed in the sea. It would be about 700 years before EGYPT WOULD BE A THREAT AGAIN but every-one was afraid of the Babylonians by then!

What great wonders is God cooking up for the future starting with trends in our own era...hmmmm?
63 posted on 06/12/2003 9:29:16 AM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: azhenfud
I would point out that it was the author of the POS that linked the conviction of Davis with declaring secession illegal. His statement is wrong, the Supreme Court did declare secession illegal. And the fact that you disagree with their decision is meaningless. The Supreme Court decision is valid and secession is illegal.
64 posted on 06/12/2003 9:29:48 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Aurelius
I can't read Mr. Benson's mind but I would assume that he considered it irrelevent.

You may assume all you want, but the fact is that the Supreme Court did determine that secession as practiced by the southern states was illegal, and it managed to do that while not trying and convicting Davis of anything. And since you're assuming for him then how did he come to the conclusion that the legality or illegality of secession was dependent on Jefferson Davis being tried in the first place?

65 posted on 06/12/2003 9:34:47 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
"And since you're assuming for him then how did he come to the conclusion that the legality or illegality of secession was dependent on Jefferson Davis being tried in the first place?"

Two non sequiturs in one sentence, Non-Sequitur?

66 posted on 06/12/2003 9:38:24 AM PDT by Aurelius
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To: Aurelius
Well that was as enjoyable as always. Sorry to bother you.
67 posted on 06/12/2003 9:41:25 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Poohbah
The call for reparations is frequently (and, IMNHO, rightly) met on Free Republic with a response of "it took place almost 150 years ago, get over it."

There's a huge difference between "getting over it" and "forgetting it."

68 posted on 06/12/2003 9:43:08 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands (http://wardsmythe.crimsonblog.com)
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To: bert
What mechanism exists to eliminate a state from the union? Are we stuck with the NE states for ever?

There was a great deal of serious discussion of seccession in New England during the War of 1812, as the war was hated in those states because it completely destroyed the seaborne trade of the US; support for the war was entirely from inland states that wanted to conquer Canada.

69 posted on 06/12/2003 9:43:51 AM PDT by John H K
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To: sheltonmac
So what is your position on portions of states that secede that are anti-seccession seceding from the state they are in (West Virginia) or the potential for that in, say, Eastern Tennessee?
70 posted on 06/12/2003 9:45:36 AM PDT by John H K
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To: southland
(For others) A review and ordering information for the book can be found here.
71 posted on 06/12/2003 9:53:13 AM PDT by Aurelius
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To: Non-Sequitur
You and I have hashed over the case of Texas v. White on several occassions and been unable to come to any agreement. I don't see how it has any relevence whatever to the present post which deals with happenings prior to 1869.
72 posted on 06/12/2003 9:56:50 AM PDT by Aurelius
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To: Corin Stormhands
Let me know when you actually start "getting over it," will ya?
73 posted on 06/12/2003 10:10:39 AM PDT by Poohbah (I must be all here, because I'm not all there!)
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To: Poohbah
That'll be purty much as soon as y'all stop tellin' me to fergit it.
74 posted on 06/12/2003 10:19:32 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands (http://wardsmythe.crimsonblog.com)
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To: John H K
There was a great deal of serious discussion of seccession in New England during the War of 1812, as the war was hated in those states because it completely destroyed the seaborne trade of the US; support for the war was entirely from inland states that wanted to conquer Canada.

And John Calhoun was most noisily against secession--but suddenly flip-flopped when it suited him.

75 posted on 06/12/2003 10:24:33 AM PDT by Poohbah (I must be all here, because I'm not all there!)
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To: Aurelius
Good post!!!
76 posted on 06/12/2003 10:56:29 AM PDT by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
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To: Aurelius
Good post!!!
77 posted on 06/12/2003 10:56:30 AM PDT by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
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To: Aurelius
Good post!!!
78 posted on 06/12/2003 10:56:31 AM PDT by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
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To: SCDogPapa
Thanks
79 posted on 06/12/2003 11:02:08 AM PDT by Aurelius
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To: Aurelius
"FYI"

Thanks!
80 posted on 06/12/2003 11:21:01 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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