Libertarians Look for a State to Call Their Own. (Free State Project)

The Everett Herald (WA) | 2/23/2003 | reprint from the Baltimore Sun

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

Plans are under way for an invasion of New Hampshire. Or Wyoming. Or maybe Delaware, Montana or Alaska. Sparsely populated and independent in spirit, they're all attractive targets for a certain bloodless coup in the making.

Within the next several years, according to the plan, 20,000 Libertarians would move to a single state and begin infiltrating. They'd get jobs, join civic groups, get elected and take a hatchet to taxes and laws. In this utopia called the Free State Project, schools would be severed from the state, gun-control laws abolished, drugs legalized, health and social services privatized, and most federal aid rejected. Government's only job would be to protect against "force and fraud."

[tpaine]

"An earlier FreeState Project"

Yep CJ, religious cultists, like those at Jonestown, are very prone to finding & following a charismatic leader, - they search for the type whose word can be seen as law, one who must be obeyed upon fear of being ostracized. It's an odd mania.
Thankfully, I see very few here at FR that act like that.
- Certainly not any libertarians.

[Poser]

If 20,000 Libertarians moved up to New Hampshire and declared themselves to be Republicans (or Democrats), started attending county meetings and working on campaigns, they could easily hijack the party and get their candidates elected.

At my county level, 10 activists were able to take over the entire delegation and boot all of the RINOs.

If 20,000 people sent one letter per month to local newspaper editors and attended one local city council or selectmen's meeting, they could take over the whole state.

[Hadean]

I know this group. I took part in discussing the ideas they had, including Sorens, at the early point when they only had about 200 members. Momentum is gaining, they have a few thousand members I think now, but the problem is that they're not a group made of Libertarians, they are a loose group of self-proclaimed Anarchists and Communists among many other little factions of politics. Some of them want to ultimately secede from the USA.

They can't even decide on a fair voting system to use when deciding on which state to "overrun", let alone which state and how. They'll cause a little hoopla, I'm sure, but it's doomed to become what they despise. The political rift-raft that join the cause will jump ship before anything politically substantial on a state level is achieved.

[Jack Black]

"they are a loose group of self-proclaimed Anarchists and Communists".

Really? I've spent a bunch of time visiting their web site and discussion groups and have not seen either Anarchist or Communists there. There are a lot of self proclaimed libertarians and Constitutionalists. I surprised at the hostility to their project evidenced here. Here are a bunch of people who want to "roll back liberal programs", theoretically a goal of Free Republic (though this place has lost a lot of focus as its grown). They aim to do this completely by working within the US political system, peacefully. They are willing to move their families to help achieve this. In all of this I don't see anything that deserves the heavy scorn.

What's your plan. Tax rates are near 50% for high wage earners. We continue to be forced to contribute to the Social Security ponzi scheme. In my state the government is near broke from massive overspending from everything for mental health programs for drug addicts to building airial trams for a local hospital. We just elected another Democrat governor. I think the idea of trying to have *SOME* state with less government is a good one. In fact I think it's happening without the planning of this group. Conservatives and Libertarians are leaving places like Mass. and NY that are completely hostile to their views. Why live in a state with horrible gun laws and taxes when you can find one thats better.

Anyway, check it out for yourself. Here's the web site:

[Kevin Curry]

When that didn't work, Glennie came up with the idea of a Libertarian space colony.

I'll build the launch vehicle.

[Kevin Curry]

Hey, it's the only launch vehicle possible in a libertarian-style "no taxes for space research" society.

[dead]

Further proof that you are, as always, clueless.

I hate to tell you this, but libertarians are not generally known for their blind religious fervor. That sort of mania is generally reserved for cultural conservatives, like yourself.

I guess nobody told you that.

[dead]

I surprised at the hostility to their project evidenced here. Here are a bunch of people who want to "roll back liberal programs", theoretically a goal of Free Republic (though this place has lost a lot of focus as its grown). They aim to do this completely by working within the US political system, peacefully.

But somebody there might smoke pot, and that sends the statist control freaks into an absolute tizzy.

This sort of idea scares them. They love control much more than freedom.

[Hank Rearden]

Big Government Republicrats and other control freaks are scared to death of liberty, as evidenced in this thread once again.

[rightofrush]

Thank you for the first thoughtful post on this thread.
The thought of an organized party that actually believes its rhetoric and tries to act on it is a frightening prospect for Bushies and Dims alike.

[Catspaw]

I was thinking they'd be happy in the UP, if they'd secede. It's also big enough to divide into four or more substates once they start squabbling among themselves.

Except for the snow, cold and a 10 month-long winter, it's a great place.

[unspun]

Will they call it the Republic of Cato?

"Cato, my little yellow friend...."

[Mulder]

The statists here forget that this is basically how America got started. Discontent people got together and went to a sparsely inhabited place, where they ruled themselves.

[537 Votes]

Hey, it's the only launch vehicle possible in a libertarian-style "no taxes for space research" society.

Actually, we aren't spending any taxes on launch vehicle R&D. NASA spends all $13 billion it receives from taxpayers on orbiting politically-correct mission specialists to monitor ant farms of elementary school kids.

The space shuttle, NASA's last grand space launch vehicle to be developed, is twice as expensive to operate as the launch vehicles it was supposed to replace.

No new launch vehicle design has been prototyped, produced, and put into orbit since 1973, when the Space Shuttle design was finalized. This, despite NASA spending approximately $300 billion in public funds over that period.

When NASA took over the privately-developed DC-X vehicle developed by McDonnell-Douglas, it promptly crashed it on the first flight. Then McDonnell-Douglas was forced to blame itself for the crash -- lest it lose favor with NASA.

Because of the powerful political interests that have developed around the taxpayer funding spent on Shuttle, there will be no public development of an inexpensive launch vehicle system to compete with Shuttle.

Maybe the libertarians are wrong, but they haven't stolen $300 billion from taxpayers pockets and killed fourteen astronauts and acted defensive about it. This is why I like libertarians more than I like bureaucrats.

[Mulder]

NASA spends all $13 billion it receives from taxpayers on orbiting politically-correct mission specialists to monitor ant farms of elementary school kids.

NASA stopped being a legitimiate scientific research agency once the number of bureaucrats there exceeded the number of engineers.

[Cultural Jihad]

Big Government Republicrats and other control freaks are scared to death of liberty, as evidenced in this thread once again.

Being clueless is a good thing for you to be, since it assures your continued irrelevance.

[Kevin Curry]

The thought of an organized party . . .

I'm sorry. I thought this thread was about the Libertarian Party.

[Kevin Curry]

Maybe the libertarians are wrong, but they haven't stolen $300 billion from taxpayers pockets and killed fourteen astronauts and acted defensive about it.

Maybe not.

But the question remains, how do the libertarians propose to build and get to their space colony? Where are they going to get the money? Will they hold car wash fundraisers? Sell Ayn Rand memorabilia?

[Kevin Curry]

Don't confuse an ability to complain with an ability to solve problems.

Libertarians have mastered the art of complaining. No one disputes that.

[Hadean]

I've spent a bunch of time visiting their web site and discussion groups and have not seen either Anarchist or Communists there.

As I've said, I took part in it. I was involved before the link you gave me even existed. They [Anarchists/Communists] may not partake in web discussions very often, but they are in membership and corse on their views. I assure you. I'm skeptical to believe that Constitutionalists and Anarchists can confederate to find a fair and uniform political process, most especially in a "carpetbagger" kind of situation certain to be subjective to a large opposition by not only by the pre-established government itself, but in the local scene of personal politics and hometown convictions people tend to lean towards. Many elements within the FSP want a whole new system, not just a seat and some Federal bargaining rights.

My point isn't to degrade the fundamental ideas of the movement. I respect Sorens for his views and efforts. My point is that I don't personally believe this particular mixture of elements can obtain the society they proclaim to want, providing the circumstances they intend to enter into and the background it builds itself off of.

The FSP was examined on Hannity & Colmes several months back, and it was painted by the left and right as a movement ineffectively cliche in it’s arguments and somewhat extreme with it’s expectations. This sort of PR is bad for recruiting serious, well educated and politically-influential people that can help the movement. Instead, you’re left with the likes comparable to Jesse Jackson and a hell of a lot of rolling eyes. They are politically suave, but are setting themselves up for a sociological thrashing, IMO.