Elizabeth Smart--New Suspect, New Thread

KING: All right, let's talk about the Elizabeth Smart case, which the media has kind of left now. What is your best read on that tragedy in Utah?

WALSH: I spent yesterday by coincidence with Ed and Lois Smart. I had them on "The John Walsh Show" to kind of give an update to the case. You know, Ricci, the guy that was the main suspect, died in prison of an aneurysm. He's the guy that was the handyman at the house that put 1,000 miles on his pickup truck during the two days that she was missing. He was a burglar. He also had a rap sheet, which a lot of the media doesn't understand. He spent 10 years in jail. He tried to blow the head off of a cop with a shotgun. This is a real bad guy.

I hope that he didn't take the secret of Elizabeth Smart to the grave with him. I talked to Ed and Lois yesterday. I said, don't give up hope. Justice delayed isn't justice denied.

What's killing them is the fact of the not knowing. I think they're prepared for the worst. Most parents of missing children are prepared for the worst. But their young daughter has now said that she believes that Ricci wasn't the guy in there that night, that it may have been another guy that did some work on their roof, an itinerant guy that worked at a homeless shelter, and he may be a suspect in this. And I don't want to give away a lot of breaking information here, but "America's Most Wanted" is going to take a look at the Smart case, because I know one thing, we have been able to solve crimes after 10 years.

So I gave the Smarts, you know, the best encouragement I could and said, look, don't give up hope. We'll relook at the case. It is normal for the media tension to die down, and to try to have a good holiday. This is going to be the first Christmas without this beautiful girl, and the Smarts have five other beautiful children. So they're trying to hold that family together.

I said, you know, do the best you can with your five children. Don't give up hope, and, you know what, we'll take another look at this case and try to keep it alive.

Get it straight, Sherl, please. I never said there were witnesses to Ricci "breaking into" the Adams home. But on the Third District Court District Attorney David E. Yocom's DAO #02012784 list of Counts against Ricci, is gives: THIS INFORMATION IS BASED ON EVIDENCE OBTAINED FROM THE FOLLOWING WITNESSES: s. Adams, L. Linh, R. Lewis, and T. Siebert. Siebert is a detective on SLCPD. This was a .pdf file.

Statistics? If you want to speak of statistics, then you would have to look further into the Smart family, for sexual child abuse is most often committed by a member of the family.

I guess you have no other way to keep this board going than to accuse me of defending Ricci. Defending him is quite different than demanding evidence that he is guilty, which is what I have done.

We have heard Moul comment on Ricci and the Jeep on t.v. We do not know what he told the police - and most importantly, we do not know what questions the police asked him.

This is an article from August 2, 2002. Police now say this guy came looking for them to help them out?:

Not-guilty Plea in Bank Heist

By Angie Welling

Deseret News staff writer

One of the two men accused of helping Richard Albert Ricci rob a Sandy bank last year appeared in federal court Thursday. John Russell Remington, 44, pleaded not guilty to charges of armed bank robbery, possession of a firearm during the commission of a violent crime and restricted persons in possession of a firearm. Ricci is among a list of potential suspects in the kidnapping of 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart. A former handyman for the Smarts, Ricci, 48, is also charged in state court with stealing items from their Federal Heights house. Douglas Rex Young, 51, is also charged with the bank robbery. U.S. Magistrate Ronald Boyce Thursday scheduled a three-day trial to begin Sept. 23 before David Winder, U.S. district judge for Utah. Federal prosecutors hope to try all three men at the same time. "We charged them together. We hope to try them together," Assistant U.S. Attorney Mark Vincent said. That may, however, be held up by custody issues and coordinating attorneys' schedules.

Remington will remain in federal custody pending trial. Ricci is in state custody on the theft charges and a parole violation, and Young is in the custody of a federal parole board. Arraignments for Ricci and Young have not been scheduled. If convicted, Remington and Young face a maximum 42 years in prison. Ricci was charged with a federal "three strikes" sentencing enhancement for a series of violent crimes committed over a nearly 30-year period. If convicted, the penalty carries a mandatory sentence of life in prison. Law enforcers allege Ricci masterminded the Nov. 2, 2001, holdup of Far West Bank, 8520 S. 1300 East. According to a Sandy police report, a man in a ski mask entered the bank holding a black handgun just before 5 p.m. The man ordered two tellers to lie down on the floor and threatened to take a third hostage if the tellers didn't cooperate. The man took $1,713 from the tills and ran out of the bank. The man was seen getting into the passenger side of a white Honda.

I've always thought there was something fishy about Remington, including the fact that they plastered pictures of Ricci, Young, and Romero all over the media but I have never seen a picture of Remington. There was the comment his lawyer made about it being ridiculous they would consider his client a potential suspect in the Elizabeth Smart case since he was in jail on the night she was kidnapped. Then NE said that Young and Remington's voices were in the voice lineup given to MK.

I remember reading that police had interviewed Young, and they also wanted to interview a man named John Russell Remington who was another ex-con who had worked with Ricci in the Federal Heights neighborhood at one time. I read that Ricci gave police Young and Remington's names as other ex-con's he had worked with in the Federal Heights neighborhood and Remington returned the favor by fingering Ricci as the gunman in his bank robbery. Now police are telling us Remington came forward on his own as a good Christian to do whatever he could to help find Elizabeth and should be rewarded for it. Even though he gave police no information that has helped them one iota in the case.

I don't know what it is, but I think there may be something rotten with Remington, his relationship with the police, and the story they've told us, and Remington could well be the key to solving Elizabeth's disappearance.

...has anyone ever said how the police came to know Ricci's Jeep was in Moul's garage?

No, and they have never told us why they went back and started looking at Ricci again after initially interviewing him, only something vague about they questioned his wife's story about Ricci being at home with her on the night of the kidnapping. They have never said what it is that makes thim question her story, I think there is something there they haven't released to the public. There appears to be a gap in police interest in Ricci from the time of his initial interview until after the Jeep was returned to Moul's on Jun 8, it may well be Moul heard something that tied Ricci to the Smarts and prompted him to notify authorities of the information he had. I do feel if the police would have started tailing Ricci right away they may have stopped whatever happened on Jun 8 from happening and this crime may have been resolved a long time ago.

This is from the SLC Tribune on Oct 17:

A separate bank robbery charge filed against Remington was dismissed on Wednesday. Prosecutors had alleged that he robbed a Murray bank of nearly $700. Remington's criminal history dates to the 1980s, when he was sentenced to up to life in prison for bank robbery. He was later sentenced to 14 years in prison after he went on a crime spree while on a home visit from the Utah State Prison, according to a story in the Jan. 19, 1986, edition of The Salt Lake Tribune. For a Salt Lake County robbery committed during the home visit, Remington, then 28, was convicted of being a habitual criminal and given an additional sentence of 5 years to life. He served two years in prison and completed his parole on March 8, 1994.

And now this guy will be out of jail again in no more than 5 years. What is up with Utah?

None of the Utah papers printed a picture of Remington in the articles about the court decision in December. We have still never seen a picture of John Russell Remington.

Hi Sherlock, good to see you!

Yeah, that federal sentencing can be tricky. There is an entire volume devoted to all the factors they want considered. I see from the Sentencing Guidelines that bank robbery is a Level 20 offense. (Warning: this may not be the most recent revision.) A Level 20 seems to start off with a base imprisonment term of anywhere from 33-70 months, depending on the criminal history of the defendant. (Warning: that may not be the most recent version of the table, this info is only given as ballpark figures.) Then all the factors have to be added: things like "Acceptance of responsibility (yes or no)", and many, many others.

Here's an example of where they would go, once they determined the type and level of offense. Warning: this is only an example from one edition of the Federal Sentencing Guidelines, and may not be the most up-to-date information on the subject. Start with the base level (probably Level 20, in this case), then "If a firearm was discharged, increase by 7 levels; if a firearm was otherwise used, increase by 6 levels; if a firearm was brandished , displayed or possessed, increase by 5 levels......If a threat of death was made, increase by 2 levels."

So it could have gotten to a pretty high level, if the circumstances we heard about were true. The higher the level, the more time to serve.

But then you have to go to Sect. 5K of the Federal Sentencing Guidelines. This section deals with departures from what would have otherwise been a mandatory sentence. If a prisoner provides Substantial Assistance to the authorities, he can get a "downward departure." Such a departure can be very significant.

I guess the best way to find out how they came up with the final tally of time for this man would be for us to see the worksheet that would have been done on him by a federal probation officer. Those people earn their pay! This worksheet is probably in a file somewhere; if it's in the federal court file for this case, someone could probably view it just by going to the federal district court in the district where the case was handled.

It's anybody's guess how many crimes Remington may have given information to the FBI about. All we know is that he apparently didn't talk about the disappearance of Elizabeth.

And there's one final, unstated factor in just how low the feds, or any other prosecutor, are likely to go, as far as agreeing to a sentence for a defendant. That factor is one which they will consider within their office, not publicly. They must assess just whether they really have enough evidence to prove the offense against the guy in a trial. Maybe they didn't feel too confident about their evidence against Remington for the bank robbery.

One thing that sticks in my mind about the bank robbery is, that Ricci was alleged to have been the guy who actually went into the bank. Then his partners, presumably including Remington, had the task of disposing of Ricci's clothes, which Ricci changed after leaving the robbery.

If Ricci told police he'd done renovation work under Remington, then that would have caused the police to go see Remington. At that point, they would of course have looked at Remington's recent alleged activities, including the bank robbery. They might have asked him, whose clothes were those you were disposing of? If he'd decided to broker a little information, he'd have told them the clothes were Ricci's. That would then have begun to tie Ricci into the bank robbery scenario. Just a conjecture.

"There must be some reason for this mysterious roofer connection to be coming to light after all this time."

I'm wondering when we're going to hear about the roofer too. I know Ed Smart said that he would give more details regarding this after the holidays -- and wonder if something will be said about the roofer on the 48 Hours special on 1/10/03. Though the SLC Tribune article said the 48 Hour special centers around Elizabeth's siblings and was taped back in November -- it also said that there would be new information. Questions for the children were submitted beforehand and approved by the Smarts. It seems very, very doubtful than any new information would come from questions asked of the children, but I wonder (and I guess I'm hoping!) that the special might also include some footage taped at a later date with Ed and Lois Smart regarding the roofer. Perhaps this is what Ed meant when he said there would be more infomration after the holidays?
I'm beginning to think there's not much to it, but I'd still like some clarification!

Last night on the news they stated that there is going to be updated information on the Elizabeth Smart case on
"48 hours friday" They stated that the FAMILY has given permission for them to interview MK.

Sounds like a must see! Things also were said about the case on the news once again to me sounded like the family has been reading and/or on this thread, as I have always suspected. Which again, I don't care if they are but I have to ask Why do you care what is being said on this forum unless we are really dead on with some of what took place that night and where Elizabeth might be.

Oh and if you are--I never said that I really thought she was in Canada with the polygamist only thought it interesting that the name Ricci and Kingstons go hand in hand with each other and that if you are a member of the Kingston group but not family and you wanted a wife you have to look elsewhere. (just thought it was interesting that Ed had to make a statement to the newspaper interviewer that some people think she is in Canada with the polygamist--again I understand Ed! you where just trying to discredit what I have and others have stated here on this forum.

(to posters Ed has also stated other facts on interviews after we have discussed them here. I know there are other forums but this one he addresses in particular) Why Ed Why? Tan pants, speech, timing why is there such a concern about this forum? Don't you have something better to do then sit and read these post and then try to find someway to slip your comments in when being interviewed. If it isn't you personally someone else near you is reading these which it is a free country but with all the man power that went searching for your daughter, when other peoples daughters that are missing didn't even get ten volunteers to help them!, you think that you would be tring harder not worring about people and there opinions because for the most part that is what is on this thread.) and Yes, this is also just my opinion, But I was a searcher and put a Lot of hours in on behalf of your family and I really don't see you giving graditude just giving out secrets little by little and acting like a politician ready to run. Controlling a bit aren't we? don't blame that on the LE I know better. Why wouldn't you accept help from those that really could help? Also, What about Elizabeth's Harp, I am waiting to hear about that? ????no one else seems to question it so I haven't said anything but I know there is a story to her harp as well, are you going to share that with the public? or is that another secret waiting for the right time to release it? (I mean that is really why the garage door was left open wasn't it?)

Okay, I haven't been on this thread for awhile but have been reading. Now that I have logged on and typing this which you are reading, I guess this is really what is bugging me the most. Especially when you hear the Smarts state things that are on this thread but don't claim to know anything about it. Remember I know some of the extended family and I do talk to them as well as LE (police/fbi) and Private investigators.

Looks like they think I'm paranoid lol. Thats okay, doesn't hurt me. The "new ones (as if)" should read the old threads. If lakey is Angela maybe she can tell us if she moved in with her boyfriend or just visiting for long periods of time. I heard her boyfriend is under house arrest or at least won't leave the house has dinner delivered to him every night. (not slandering seen her there myself.)

As for Varina Davis, I miss Varina didn't think she was apart of the Smarts, could be wrong but she/he did bring up interesting views as well as others, Cherry, Bella..., Hope some of the old posters come back for fridays viewing missing some old friends LOL that would slame me, don't like the new ones they don't know what they are talking about.

Lets be nicer this time around okay! Other forums are nice to each other we should be able to even if we are hip deep in this case.

Missing JG bs (not meaning he bs' I mean he says bs to everyone that post something he doesn't agree with) LoL.

Okay, Lakey and Sherlock you called me out where are the others?

Didn't mention you Devil_Anse because you have just recently came back. Good to hear from you.

I guess I started today because it has been 7 months sinse I was searching for her up on that mountain and now there is snow up there. What happened up there that day is still in my dreams and I carry with me as if it happened yesterday. I still hear her voice call for help!

The truth will come out! We can't give up hope.
Always on Elizabeth's side always.

hey Kat.....good to see you here...

I am curious about the harp thing as well....sounds like you have some special info about it...

could it be...and this is just a guess...that Ed left the garage door open purposely so someone could come in and steal the harp?..perhaps, there was a big insurance policy on it and perhaps Ed needed money????.....is that possible?

what if it turned out that Ed arranged with Ricci to steal the harp, but Ricci being the crook he is also wandered into the rest of the house, saw Lizzie, talked with her, and thought he had to take her to protect himself....a real bungled burglary for sure....

that scenario would certainly explain both Ed's and Tom's ridiculous statements to LE ....especially the words of Tom that said...."its over the boundaries" as in, taking Liz was not in the deal....

okay...just random thoughts....but since we have no Liz, any ideas are still open for discussion...

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