Elizabeth Smart--New Suspect, New Thread

Larry King Live; KUTV; Salt Lake Tribune; etc. ^ | December 23, 24, 25, 2002 | Various

[Palladin]

KING: All right, let's talk about the Elizabeth Smart case, which the media has kind of left now. What is your best read on that tragedy in Utah?

WALSH: I spent yesterday by coincidence with Ed and Lois Smart. I had them on "The John Walsh Show" to kind of give an update to the case. You know, Ricci, the guy that was the main suspect, died in prison of an aneurysm. He's the guy that was the handyman at the house that put 1,000 miles on his pickup truck during the two days that she was missing. He was a burglar. He also had a rap sheet, which a lot of the media doesn't understand. He spent 10 years in jail. He tried to blow the head off of a cop with a shotgun. This is a real bad guy.

I hope that he didn't take the secret of Elizabeth Smart to the grave with him. I talked to Ed and Lois yesterday. I said, don't give up hope. Justice delayed isn't justice denied.

What's killing them is the fact of the not knowing. I think they're prepared for the worst. Most parents of missing children are prepared for the worst. But their young daughter has now said that she believes that Ricci wasn't the guy in there that night, that it may have been another guy that did some work on their roof, an itinerant guy that worked at a homeless shelter, and he may be a suspect in this. And I don't want to give away a lot of breaking information here, but "America's Most Wanted" is going to take a look at the Smart case, because I know one thing, we have been able to solve crimes after 10 years.

So I gave the Smarts, you know, the best encouragement I could and said, look, don't give up hope. We'll relook at the case. It is normal for the media tension to die down, and to try to have a good holiday. This is going to be the first Christmas without this beautiful girl, and the Smarts have five other beautiful children. So they're trying to hold that family together.

I said, you know, do the best you can with your five children. Don't give up hope, and, you know what, we'll take another look at this case and try to keep it alive.

[Sherlock]

I hope they interview Moul.

[lakey]

I certainly hope they interview him too.

[trussell]

This is great news. I have been so emotional ever since I heard this earlier. I have cried, laughed, prayed. I have always felt, or wanted to feel, that she was still alive. Praise God she is home.

Blessings,
trussell

[fromnovascotia]

Best news all year.

[RecentConvert]

Please ping me if new threads are created.

Thanks

[Palladin]

Larry King's Interview with Patty Hearst is here:

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0303/13/lkl.00.html

[Palladin]

CNN LARRY KING LIVE (An Excerpt)

Interviews With Patricia Hearst; Friends, Members of Smart Family

Aired March 13, 2003 - 21:00 ET
On February 4, 1974 -- 74 Patricia Hearst was kidnapped from her Berkeley apartment, a student at the University of California at Berkeley, imprisoned in the closet, sexually assaulted, eventually involved in the SLA robbery of a bank in San Francisco. You know the story.

Patricia Hearst joins us tonight with a unique personal perspective on Elizabeth's kidnapping. First, what do you think it must be like for her right now?

PATRICIA HEARST, KIDNAP VICTIM: Right now, I'd say she is very confused. And even though she's back with her family, which is far and away the best thing for her, because that -- the closeness of her family and being back with them is what's going on bring her, you know, back to being truly herself.

It's going to take a while. I think that she still believes that her kidnappers have some kind of control over her and it's going to take at least, at least a couple of weeks being away from them and back safely with her family before she realizes that they have no more powers, that she's truly safe.

And I know for me, the moment when -- it was a longer time, but the moment when I really, really felt the ultimate relief was when I saw them in a courtroom, and that was when I knew for sure that they could never, ever hurt me again.

KING: All right. But was there a time, since you associated and participating with them in events where this Stockholm Syndrome sets in, where you believe your captors?

HEARST: Well, you know, she was taken out of her bedroom, you know, at knife point, terrorized, tortured -- and there's no question in my mind that she was tortured. She's a little, you know, 14-year- old baby and you have someone who took her, robbed her of the identity that she was in the process of developing. You know, that's a very, very rough age for a child. You know, 14, 15, 16.

She's got to now kind of start over and she's also come home, you know, into a family where the dynamic that they had before her kidnapping has changed dramatically. She's come into a family now that has spent nine months totally focused toward getting her back to them. In that nine months she's been, you know, certainly mentally abused and certainly physically abused. You know, he had her hiding her places, dressing -- you know, dressing her the way he wanted her. You know, telling her, I'm sure, you know -- I'm going to kill you. You're not safe. I'll kill your family And he certainly knew the house, the family where everybody was, who they were. She's got to work back into that family dynamic again and it all has to try to form a new normalcy.

KING: The question, Patricia, most people ask -- it been asked of you a hundred times, but it's more relevant today than it was a couple months ago, when your case dimmed and this case is now in front of us. Why didn't she run away?

HEARST: I'm sorry?

KING: She -- why didn't she run away?

HEARS: Oh, I thought -- sorry. I thought you said she ran away from home.

KING: No, why didn't she run away. She was found on the street, walking down the street. Run up to a cop.

HEARST: Yes, you can't do that. It's impossible.

KING: Why?

HEARST: Because you have been so abused and so robbed of your free will and so frightened that you believe -- you come to a point where you believe any lie your abductor has told you. You don't feel safe. You think that either you will be killed if you reach out to get help. You believe that your family will be killed. You're not even thinking about trying to get help anymore. You've in a way, given up. You have absorbed this new, you know, identity that they've given you. You're just surviving. You're not even doing that, really. You're just living while everything else is going on around you. KING: All right. Now, there are even -- there were even pictures taken of them apparently fairly recently. The two suspects and her at a party somewhere.

HEARST: What kind of party was that?

KING: I know. Think of it. Now, you -- because she must have mingled with people. They weren't just the three of them together. They were with other people. He was in jail for six days. How do you explain that?

HEARST: Well, the party, I would say, his friends and I know the SLA had people around them. And why would you reach out to people clearly that were his friends, people he trusted to take you in there.

KING: So you think other people knew...

HEARST: It's not even an issue.

KING: Other people knew that he had taken her. Other people -- friends of his would have known that Ms. Smart is his victim?

HEARST: No. I think that other people would -- I think she believes that if she had told these other people that he had kidnapped her that they would have told him that.

KING: Oh.

HEARST: And frankly, I even believed that. I would -- I would be very frightened to just tell, you know, clearly what were his friends a thing like that.

KING: All right. How do you explain...

HEARST: These are not the people you would reach out to and I don't know about the six days. For all I know, he had left her locked in the trunk of a car while he was in jail.

The best case scenario is that she wasn't locked in a box and tucked under a bed or stuffed into a basement, but that she was left with, you know, his wife. We don't know what she was going through in those six days. She could have been buried in somebody's backyard.

KING: Should Elizabeth get an attorney?

HEARST: Yes. Absolutely. She needs an attorney.

KING: Why?

HEARST: She needs an attorney for several reasons.

On is -- and the most important reason at this point, is to keep the investigators in line, because they are, at this point, only interested in prosecuting the people who kidnapped her, which very admirable it is, however, there needs to be a limit on who has access to this child. She's very, vulnerable. Everybody is going to be -- you know, want to be able to say, Oh, I went in and I interviewed her and they're not going to be careful and cautious. If they administer psychological or psychiatric examination or physical examinations, I would be very concerned that there is no privilege between, you know, this child and those doctors and in fact, at the time of trial, it's possible that -- that the defense could then say, Well, you know, the prosecution's given these tests. We want our doctors to give her these tests, too. And then she's subjected to, you know, potentially an abuse as bad or worse than the abuse that she received while she was at the hands of her kidnapper.

Also, I think it's a good idea just in terms of the press. The press is getting -- well, you know, it's all about the sex isn't it? They're out of control.

KING: All about the sex. You mean they're implying that she was sexually harmed?

HEARST: Yes. I think it's more than implying. I think...

KING: Should she tell everything that happened to her?

HEARST: I can say if it were my daughter, there simply be no sexual abuse. That would be it. And that...

KING: But she might have to testify to that at a trial, though, right?

HEARST: She needs a lawyer, and I guess if they want to subpoena her and force her, you know, maybe they could. I think there's no reason why we have to know about something like this. This is a little 15-year-old girl. She's going to grow up. She's going to be, you know, 25, 45, 65. She doesn't need to have this.

I mean, I have visions of the day of her wedding, you know -- Remember, Elizabeth Smart she was the one that -- it's just totally unreasonable.

KING: In other words, it has no relation to the kidnapping. She can testify to being kidnapped and being held. She doesn't have to say anything else. Is that your point?

HEARST: Well, I think life in prison is life in prison. And also, I think we should keep in mind there will probably be two trials, one state, one federal. She's going to be beginning a very long, horrible ordeal. She really does need counsel to help her get through this, because as loving and, you know, truly lovely as her parents seem to be, they're thinking everything good is going to happen from here on out and it's potentially could be very, very bad for this little girl, and they need a lawyer who can get in between investigators and the daughter and lay rules.

---

[scaredkat]

Thanks!

[Palladin]

Patty Hearst has some very wise advice to give....she's been there, done that. The whole transcript is worth a read.

Look at the date on this thread....Dec.26! That's when John Walsh got out the word that the roofer was a good suspect.

The SLCPD really bungled this case. I hate to think of the days, weeks, and months that Elizabeth was being abused by a sexual sadist, while Dimwit Dinse and his Merry Men chased Edmunds, Ricci, the milkman, etc.

[Palladin]

Also, take the time to listen to this tape of the Today Show with Mitchell's ex-wife and her children:

http://www.msnbc.com/m/mw/mw.asp?t=V&id=tdy_couric_mitchells_030314&sk=&pl=&name=&opt=0

Mitchell sexually abused his stepdaughter from age 8 to age 12.

The man is a monster.

[Sherlock]

The SLCPD really bungled this case. I hate to think of the days, weeks, and months that Elizabeth was being abused by a sexual sadist, while Dimwit Dinse and his Merry Men chased Edmunds, Ricci, the milkman, etc.

I am absolutely furious about all the crap we were told in this case by the SLC Police Department. The only solice is that Elizabeth is home safe and an investigation has started into the police behavior in the case. These are issues I want to see addressed:

1) What is the story on Moul's supposed story about Ricci taking the Jeep and returning it 2 days after the kidnapping covered with mud and pine needles wearing a machete and taking off with the seat covers, post hole digger, et al in some blue van and refusing to tell police where he had been and who was the driver of the van. They even claimed they told Ricci they would exonerate him from other crimes he might have been involved in during the period if he would just answer the questions of where he had been, what he did with the things he took from the Jeep, and who he left Mouls with. This must all be a bunch of crapolla either they or Moul dreamed up. A man was incarcerated and lost his life over this and someone needs to pay! There had better be criminal charges related to this.

2) "Emmanuel" was picked up in San Diego and ID'd through his fingerprint to his real name in 2002, after Mary Catherine had told police she thought he might be the kidnapper, but they let him go because no one was looking for him. "Emmanuel" was known by people all over Salt Lake but police had made no effort to determine his identity or track him down.

3) SLC Police Department should be required to publish all the "evidence" they have that led them to the conviction Ricci was involved with the kidnapping.

[Sherlock]

Hi trussell! Praise God, praise God! I just continue praying God will continue to work in every aspect related to Elizabeth and this ordeal and work out all the details to bringing her and her family's lives back to as much normalcy as possible.

[Sherlock]

I haven't heard anything from you since Elizabeth was found. You have always been a big supporter of the SLCPD, what do you think about them now?

[varina davis]

I followed the Patty Hearst case minute by minute as it was happening. I didn't believe she was totally innocent then and I still don't. Her comments on the ES situation might be credible if she knew the facts -- but the fact is, none of us yet know all the facts.

The SLC LE is getting a bad rap right now, but you have to wonder how much cooperation they got early on, when the parents were talking to him (mitchell) in words indicating they knew what was happening.

I'm beyond happy that Elizabeth is no longer wandering around in dirty clothes with the cultish couple. I hope she doesn't go missing again -- but I won't hold my breath.

[Palladin]

Right, Sherlock. If we, mere case-followers, feel cheated, deceived, and exploited by Dinse and Co., can you imagine how the Smarts feel?

And then to find out that another girl in ther family was targeted and almost kidnapped by Mitchell! While they were holding and interrogating Richard Ricci, making his life a living hell.

Mitchell became so very self-confident when he learned that the cops were pinning Eliz.'s kidnapping on Ricci. He had the nerve to walk into the SL Trib office and tear down an Elizabeth poster. When a female employee tried to stop him, he replied arrogantly: "They have the guy who did it in jail"!

Pure evil!

[lakey]

Patty Hearst was trained by the SLA to use a machine gun. She fired that weapon in a bank, protecting her "captors."

President Carter pardoned her.

The term, "brainwashing", was coined during the Korean War as an explanation for military personnel who defected to North Korea. My goodness, no American in his right mind would defect to the enemy (end sarcasm).

That a human being can be mentally coerced to do something against his will is a myth, Palladin.

Fact is, generations since the Korean War have been brought up to believe that people cannot figure out a way to solve the problems in their own lives without psychiatric and/or psychological (counseling) intervention.

Regardless of your stance on this subject, I love you just the same.

[lakey]

Oh, Sherl, I'm so glad you're furious at somebody else besides me.

If this Mitchell man ever gets to trial - and that's a big IF - how much information do you think will be suppressed? Do you think SLCPD still has the Watch Commander's 911 call?

Everytime I think of the dog losing Elizabeth's trail, I get furious. No excuse for that, unless the dog wasn't properly trained. Possibly, his keeper was too lazy to continue further on. It was rough & rugged terrain.

[RecentConvert]

Thanks for reviving the thread.

[RecentConvert]

When a female employee tried to stop him, he replied arrogantly: "They have the guy who did it in jail"!

I hadn't read this. This is just unbelievable! This guy is beyond evil. I shudder to think what a good, meek young girl like Elizabeth must have gone through.

The brain washing must have taken place during the first couple of months in the mountains overlooking the Smart home. Once this fiend knew he had her under his complete control, then, and only then, he decided to come out and travel to San Diego, safe in the knowledge she would not dare escape and obey his every command.

[RecentConvert]

I've read those dogs are not 100% reliable.