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Was Lott Right? Let's Debate

Posted on 12/12/2002 5:28:54 AM PST by A Vast RightWing Conspirator

I hereby suggest that FR starts a true debate on the merits of or problems created by our government’s forcing us (the people), sometimes quite brutally, to racially integrate. This is a very important issue and everyone else appears to be afraid to discuss this.

I’ve been watching Lott’s courageous and righteous stoning by the usual screamers of the media and here at FR which, for quite some time, seems to have moved far away from the avant-garde of political and social debate and join the ranks of GOP’s ‘followers’. In this particular case, the GOP got scared sh..less by the mainstream media’s screams for Lott’s resignation and many here ‘got the message’. After all, if the Beltway’s Buttboys doubt Lott’s future because he ‘said’ something, then Lott must go. Yes?

The media agrees that the public is outraged today. The ‘public’ is outraged, the media tells us, because Lott seemed to have suggested that the 40 year old official gov’t policy of forced racial integration created problems that a different policy might have avoided. The media, the political monkeys and many at FR now agree that Lott must be punished for what he ‘said’ or thought when he said what he said. Enterprising researchers now uncover evidence that this is not the first time that Lott said or thought that. He is a repeat offender. He dared to say thinks or think about racial integration/segregation more than once. This is viewed as so outrageous as to require his immediate resignation from whatever office he holds in the Senate.

I personally couldn’t care less if Lott gets to keep his current job or not. He wasn’t accused or raping anyone, he didn’t try to have sex with underage boys or girls, he’s not a drunk and he is no in front with the hystericals who are pushing for us to make the Middle East, or the world, safe for Israel by killing all of Israel’s enemies. On the other hand, he’s not at the forefront in the struggle to defend, preserve or expand our liberties – but who is in the GOP these days? What I do find interesting is the total and complete agreement that Lott’s ideas must not be discussed or debated. Just to create a frame of reference, the 10 Commandments and the Bible are subject to debate. The Bill of Rights in its entirety and its various components are debated and interpreted openly. The possibility of unisex marriages is discussed and considered. Assassinating dictators or other inconvenient people in other countries is calmly discussed in the media, with arguments for and against it. Euthanasia is being debated. Human cloning is considered. Evolution vs. creation is a continuing exchange of ideas. There is even a timid discussion on the merits of theories such as global warming. Nothing on racial integration vs. segregation. Not even a thought ABOUT having such a debate.

Okay, so…let’s begin to talk about racial integration which is supposed to be the opposite of racial segregation. And I am only going to offer some pointers here. Hopefully, we could have separate and multiple threads on each of these.

Who is for integration? – The federal gov’t and a bunch of totalitarians that work hard at engineering us (the people) into something that they view as ‘better’. The people are not. The people tend to naturally and voluntarily segregate in their neighborhoods, workplaces (if they are small enough to escape gov’t oversight), churches, cultural organizations, pressure groups, even Congressional caucuses. How effective is the gov’t in ‘integrating’ us? It seems to have happened in the larger companies, those that are the most regulated. The integration of ‘federal workers’ seems to have turned mostly into sending a discrete message to certain races that they needed not apply. Same result at the gov’t run housing projects. The integration of schools appears to be a failure due to unrelenting resistance from the people. The integration of housing produced racially and ethnically segregated neighborhoods. Political integration of races failed completely – the courts have segregated politicians into racially distinct districts and created such horrors in our vocabulary as ‘minority majority district’. The cities are in the process of becoming 100% non-white.

Is the government really committed to racial integration? – Not if one examines the current body of laws and regulation. It tends to be full of provisions favoring or discouraging certain races or ethnic groups from participating in the redistribution of tax funds – the white race is generally excluded while most other races, also called ‘minorities’ are encouraged to request tax funds. Again, people tend to voluntarily segregate even at the top of our government – see ‘black caucus’, ‘Latino caucus’ etc.

What do people have to say and what do they do in their private lives? – While it is true that there is a minority of ‘color blind’ people, and I happen to be one, most seem to feel comfortable and to want to be with ‘their kind’, whenever possible. The majority of people date and marry within their own race or ethnicity. People segregate themselves in their neighborhoods, social clubs and restaurants, schools, even professions and occupations.

Have inter-racial relations improved since the 60’s or not? - It is possible that inter-racial relations are worse today then in the 60’s. The college dorms are segregated. Most people would not even think into moving into a neighborhood populated by another race or ethnicity. Most small businesses are racially or ethnically homogenous. Political parties manufacture specific messages to specific races or ethnic groups.

Did forced (and generally phony) racial integration create problems? – Yes. Harlem’s Renaissance took place BEFORE forced integration, most urban slums appeared AFTER it. The government is less efficient and more costly today because poorly qualified ‘minorities’ may be hired to meet certain quotas (diversity goals). For the same reasons, some of our college graduates leave colleges ill prepared for a successfully professional life. Racial preferences in college admissions and in hiring many ‘minorities’ may cause ‘minority’ resentment for many being to advance in their careers when they are left ‘on their own’.

Is there a taboo on discussing the merits/shortcomings of forced racial integration? – Yes, no question about it. My theory: because the efforts at integration created problems of such an enormous scale, those responsible for taking our nation into the dumpster (who happen to also profit from it) would do everything in they can to stop any discussion else they would be revealed for the evil, incompetent impostors that they are.

Was Lott correct in stating that integration created problems that could have been avoided? – Yes (my view).

I see no reasons why any and all of this topics not be calmly and thoroughly discussed at a forum such as FR’s.


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To: Thommas
As to Strom's affiliation in '48 you are absolutely correct. As to his vote in '64 I cannot say. However none of this is about Strom Thurmond. It is about the statement by the Majority leader of the Senate that the victory of the segregationiast Dixiecrats in 1948 would have been good for America. If Lott believes it would have been then he is not fit to lead the Republican Party, which voted to end segregation. If he was simply unaware of the impact of his words then he is not intellectually competent to be given the responsibility of leading Senate Republicans.And if Republicans put loyalty to a man over what is good for the nation they are following the same road as the Kool Aid swiling Clinton defenders who checked their honor at the door.
301 posted on 12/12/2002 12:29:41 PM PST by xkaydet65
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To: xkaydet65
How dare you suggest that Jim Crow laws were segregationist in their intent or impact.

I hope you have proof. And I will tell you right now, none that fancy book learning evidence will do. Start up your time machine and get ready to rumble. We will also need verification on the calibration of your time machine.

Oh, never mind, I am sure you are lying weasel with your own agenda. Be gone with you.
302 posted on 12/12/2002 12:30:43 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: Bluntpoint
I will stand by my statements today.

Our laws should be 'color blind' and apply to every U.S. citizen equally, and no race should be given preferential treatment by the government over others.

Unfortunately, the government has violated this basic principle in many ways, in a misguided notion of forcing people into associations which are in conflict with basic human nature. Instead of diffusing the racial tensions in America, in many ways, these policies have aggravated them.

We Republicans must continue to strive for true equality for all citizens and strongly attack any form of discrimination.

As Republicans, we must also demand historical accuracy and stand up when things are taken out of context and distorted.

Just remember, these segregation laws were created by, and enforced by Democrats.

We need to pound that fact home!

Sen. Lott must go because he is weak. The Republicans need a strong leader in the Senate that is not afraid to fight back.

We are not the ones that use the racism card and it is time we start fighting back hard.

We must demand today, a new leader in the Senate with Balls!

303 posted on 12/12/2002 12:33:19 PM PST by Hunble
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To: A2J
Why was there forced busing? Why the other federally mandated actions? In response to Jim Crow.I may agree with you about the harm caused by the cure, but the disease of segregation was far worse. And by segregation I do not limit my condemnation to the South, but to the de facto conditions allowed to persist in the rest of the nation. Whose elimination was resisted with as much anger, if not violence as the de jure segregation of the South. Another poster said it correctly that race is the curse of this nation. And it is a curse no spell will break. Only the willingness of the people to break it, and it is a cause which I believe conservatives should be in the lead.
304 posted on 12/12/2002 12:35:24 PM PST by xkaydet65
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
I think yes, integration is a good thing. Crime is not a huge problem for whites--it's more of a problem for poor people and especially minorities--so we should be too excited about this. Most of the illegal immigrants who come here come to do work and get paid, and that benefits America a lot. Integrating people helps to reduce tensions over time, because people stop seeing themselves as completely separate groups, even if in the short run tensions go up.

We would not be able to survive as a multiethnic nation if segregation remained in force of law, and a large number of upper-class whites chose to keep their businesses segregated at the top levels.

305 posted on 12/12/2002 12:37:50 PM PST by xm177e2
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To: Hunble
I will stand by my statements today.

That is the problem, all you make is statements. One some one responds with facts, you state you don't believe the facts. When asked to supply counter facts, you go all Paul Begala.

Democrats suck mainly because the are intellectualy dishonest. Think about that.
306 posted on 12/12/2002 12:38:04 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: Hunble; dirtboy
Dirtboy, your efforts are very much appreciated. But have you noticed that your sources are all written in the third person?

How about a primary source, then, written by the Dixiecrats themselves?






(source)

From Atrios' putrescent left-wing weblog

307 posted on 12/12/2002 12:42:25 PM PST by xm177e2
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To: xm177e2
How do you know that this was not put out by Strom's enemys to discredit him? Well Mr. Smarty pants?

Just saving Hunble some time.

(Good post)
308 posted on 12/12/2002 12:47:51 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: Bluntpoint
Uh, I was dishonest because I requested a full paragraph from the 1948 presidential election?

Nobody today has been able to provide a single complete paragraph that supported the vile accusations against Stom Thurmond.

We have debated the original subject, and it has been educational. I have learned some new things today.

For people that view the world through racist eyes, I can not help you. And yes, to label any politician from the South in the 1940's as hateful toward the black race, simple because he is white, is very racist. Did it ever occur to you that he may have been defending his own race from attack also?

Cool, have fun.

309 posted on 12/12/2002 12:49:41 PM PST by Hunble
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To: Hunble
Hunble, did you read the post above? Did you read the Dixiecrat ballot? You need to de-Paul Begala your self.

Come on, comment on the above evidence. Be a man. Don't hide behind your sheet.
310 posted on 12/12/2002 12:52:35 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: xm177e2
Thank you, thank you, thank you

Outstanding find!

That is what I wanted to see today.

I do not know how to praise you enough xm177e2.

311 posted on 12/12/2002 12:53:46 PM PST by Hunble
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To: Hunble
Come on Hunble. Take your fingers from your ears, open your eyes and stop spinning in circles humming to yourself.
Comment on the evidence.

312 posted on 12/12/2002 12:55:17 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: Bluntpoint
That Sir, is the documentation that I have been asking for.
313 posted on 12/12/2002 12:56:08 PM PST by Hunble
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To: Hunble
And your comment on the documented evidence? Was it a racist ticket?
314 posted on 12/12/2002 12:57:11 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: Bluntpoint
Obviously we need to verify that it is historically accurate. And if so, this is an outstanding find.

Insure that it is not forged, but WOW!

315 posted on 12/12/2002 12:59:32 PM PST by Hunble
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To: Bluntpoint
Yes, if this can be verified to not be forged, I love it. Absolutely, 100% racist!

I will shove this one down every Democrat that dares to accuse Republicans of being racist.

316 posted on 12/12/2002 1:02:05 PM PST by Hunble
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To: philosofy123
I see. So it's okay to say dishonorable things in the name of 'humor.' I get it.
317 posted on 12/12/2002 1:02:19 PM PST by MEGoody
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To: Hunble
Insure that it is not forged, but WOW!

Your unbelievable. Now this has to be verified for you.

This was good research on xm177e2's part. This is not an oustanding find. At least in part that it was not already known by every one except you.

You will notice the presses have not been stopped because Hunble did not know that the Dixiecrat party was based almost solely on segregation.


318 posted on 12/12/2002 1:04:49 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: Hunble
I will shove this one down every Democrat that dares to accuse Republicans of being racist.

And that Strom was a racist?


319 posted on 12/12/2002 1:06:26 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: Bluntpoint
Sir, I know about the Dixiecrat party, I grew up in Atlanta.

I just wanted historical evidence to demonstrate that the Democrates are the racists in America. There was madness in my methods today.

That last line of the posted image said it all:

"Published for your information by the MISSISSIPPI STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY."

320 posted on 12/12/2002 1:09:14 PM PST by Hunble
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