To: SwordofTruth; Alamo-Girl; f.Christian; exmarine; scripter; Heartlander; betty boop; ...
Some of the strongest arguments for Jesus, the historicity of the Bible, and the resurrection....
The resurrection could not have been maintained in Jerusalem for a single day, for a single hour, if the emptiness of the tomb had not been established as a fact for all concerned. Paul Althus
In 56 A.D. Paul wrote that over 500 people had seen the risen Jesus and that most of them were still alive (1 Corinthians 15:6). It passes the bounds of credibility that the early Christians could have manufactured such a tale and then preached it among those who might easily have refuted it simply by producing the body of Jesus. John Warwick Montgomery
Think of the absurdity of a little band of defeated cowards cowering one day and a few days later transformed into a company that no persecution could silence--and then attempting to attribute this dramatic change to nothing more convincing than a miserable fabrication they were trying to foist upon the world. This simply wouldn't make sense. J.N.D. Anderson
There are two...vital differences between Christianity and Islam. Islam has no Cross and no resurrection, articles of the faith that are of the essence of Christianity and of ultimate importance to the plan of the God of the Bible. Mohammed made no atonement for our sins when he died. And when he died, he remained so. R.C. Sproul
If all wicked governments and their leaders fell, evil would still exist because it is nurtured in the human heart. Franklin Graham
There is no neutral ground in the universe: every square inch, every split second, is claimed by God and counterclaimed by Satan. C.S. Lewis
At a time when even uneducated slaves working at the Egyptian turquoise mines were inscribing their records on the tunnel walls, it is inconceivable that a man of Moses' background would fail to record the details of one of history's most significant epochs. Josh McDowell
We, as Christians, are asked to take a very great deal on trust; the teachings, for example, and the miracles of Jesus. If we had to take all on trust, I, for one, should be skeptical. The crux of the problem of whether Jesus was, or was not, what He proclaimed Himself to be, must surely depend upon the truth or otherwise of the resurrection. On that greatest point we are not merely asked to have faith. In its favor as living truth there exists such overwhelming evidence, positive and negative, factual and circumstantial, that no intelligent jury in the world cold faith to bring in a verdict that the resurrection story is true. Lord Darling, former Chief Justice of England
The disciples had nothing to gain by lying and starting a new religion. They faced hardship, ridicule, hostility, and martyr's deaths. In light of this, they could have never sustained such unwavering motivation if they knew what they were preaching was a lie. The disciples were not fools and Paul was a cool-headed intellectual of the first rank. There would have been several opportunities over three to four decades of ministry to reconsider and renounce the lie. J. P. Moreland
When therefore the disciples began to preach the resurrection in Jerusalem and people responded, and when religious authorities stood helplessly by, the tomb must have been empty. The simple fact that the Christian fellowship, founded on belief in Jesus' resurrection, came into existence and flourished in the very city where He was executed and buried is powerful evidence for the historicity of the empty tomb. Wm. Lane Craig
Are these men, who helped transform the moral structure of society, consummate liars or deluded madmen? These alternatives are harder to believe than the fact of the resurrection, and there is no shred of evidence to support them. Paul Little
...it is hard to see how the Christian church could have come into existence [without the truth of the resurrection]. That church was founded on faith in the Messiahship of Jesus. A crucified messiah [would have been] no messiah at all. H.D.A. Major
...either Jesus was the Just One, the Man of God, or among men He is the greatest of criminals. If He presented Himself as one from the dead, whereas He was not such, He is guilty of falsehood, and must be denied even the most common honesty. E. Le Camus
If Jesus Christ were not risen again (I speak the language of unbelievers), He had deceived His disciples with vain hopes of His resurrection. How came the disciples not to discover the imposter? Wilbur Smith
The simple faith of the Christian who believes in the Resurrection is nothing compared to the credulity of the skeptic who will accept the wildest and most improbable romances rather than admit the plain witness of historical certainties. The difficulties of belief may be great; the absurdities of unbelief are greater. George Hanson
Unique among criminal trials is [Jesus' trial] in which not the actions but the identity of the accused is the issue. Irwin Linton
Without the belief in the resurrection the Christian faith could not have come into being. The disciples would have remained crushed and defeated men. Even had they continued to remember Jesus as their beloved teacher, His crucifixion would have forever silenced any hopes of His being the Messiah [the Savior as predicted in the Old Testament]. The cross would have remained the sad and shameful end of His career. The origin of Christianity therefore hinges on the belief of the early disciples that God had raised Jesus from the dead. Wm. Lane Craig
But when He said that He himself would rise again from the dead, the third day after He was crucified, He said something that only a fool would dare say, if he expected [the continued] devotion of any disciplesunless He was sure He was going to rise. No founder of any world religion known to men ever dared say a thing like that! Wilbur Smith
...we know more about the details of the hours immediately before and the actual death of Jesus, in and near Jerusalem, than we know about the death of any other one man in the ancient world. Wilbur Smith
[For many years, I have studied] the histories of other times, and [have examined and weighed] the evidence of those who have written about them, and I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is proved by better and fuller evidence of every sort, to the understanding of a fair inquirer, than the great sign which God hath given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead. Thomas Arnold, Oxford University
And a favorite (wonder what beliefs we have today based on these writings of non-Christians from antiquity?)...
The Gospel account of the darkness which fell upon the land during Christ's crucifixion was well known and required a naturalistic explanation from non-Christians. [Non-Christian writing from antiquity] did not doubt that Jesus had been crucified and that an unusual event had occurred in nature that required an explanation. What occupied [non-Christian writers from antiquity] was coming up with a different interpretation. The basic facts were not called into question. F.F. Bruce
Read the Bible cover-to-cover, then we can talk. My dad
Blame not before thou hast examined the truth. Ecc. 11:7
<><
4,289 posted on
01/09/2003 7:25:02 PM PST by
viaveritasvita
(Loaded for apes...opps, I mean bear.)
To: viaveritasvita
Having been brought up a Southern Baptist which means i have read that damn Book More times than I like to think of before my 18th birthday I think I'll say something about this post.
viaveritasvita wrote "The resurrection could not have been maintained in Jerusalem for a single day, for a single hour, if the emptiness of the tomb had not been established as a fact for all concerned. Paul Althu"
12 strong able bodied men could easily empty that tomb in the night.
It wasn't maintained even for a single day. There are literally hundreds of empty tombs in Jerusalem. Jesus in fact may not have even existed as the man portrayed in the Bible. The accounts of his life are written years after his death and each account of his life is different(and you can read each one in the Bible Matthew Mark Luke and John). Each book gives a different account of the Life and death of Jesus. If the Bible is divinely inspired why would God give each author of each Gospel a widely differing account of jesus' life. I mean no two are the same in fact for all the accounts to be true Jesus would in fact be four different people especially as the accounts of his birth differ. If you don't believe me read that Book.
viaveritasvita wrote "In 56 A.D. Paul wrote that over 500 people had seen the risen Jesus and that most of them were still alive (1 Corinthians 15:6). It passes the bounds of credibility that the early Christians could have manufactured such a tale and then preached it among those who might easily have refuted it simply by producing the body of Jesus. John Warwick Montgomery"
What are the names of these 500 people? Where are there accounts of this risen Jesus. Manufacturing tales hmmm Jim Jones preached quite a few manufactured tales, Adolf Hitler manufactured quite a few tales himself in fact most messianic leaders produce weird wacky tales. And if twelve able bodied men want to hide a body I doubt anyone could find it or produce it especially fishermen ...can we say bait.
viaveritasvita wrote "cowering one day and a few days later transformed into a company that no persecution could silence--and then attempting to attribute this dramatic change to nothing more convincing than a miserable fabrication they were trying to foist upon the world. This simply wouldn't make sense"
They cowered quite a bit longer than one day in-fact they got fed to lions for quite a long time after-wards. The fact that a bunch of con artists has fooled the world is no surprise to me anyone remember that guy named Karl Marx?
viaveritasvita wrote "slam has no Cross and no resurrection, articles of the faith that are of the essence of Christianity and of ultimate importance to the plan of the God of the Bible. Mohammed made no atonement for our sins when he died. And when he died, he remained so. R.C. Sproul"
How is this any proof of anything?
I'm also skipping a few more because they are sort of nonsequitors.
viaveritasvita wrote "n that greatest point we are not merely asked to have faith. In its favor as living truth there exists such overwhelming evidence, positive and negative, factual and circumstantial, that no intelligent jury in the world cold faith to bring in a verdict that the resurrection story is true. Lord Darling, former Chief Justice of England "
This makes little sense but I think he is saying that no jury would say jesus didn't die on the cross because of the evidence. What evidence we are always told about all this evidence of jesus' life I haven't seen it. Is this evidence the bible? Where is the Roman writ authorizing jesus' death? Were is his tax records? Were are the contemporary Roman accounts of his life? If he was so important trust me the Romans would have wrote volumes on him ... history is silent.
viaveritasvita wrote "The disciples had nothing to gain by lying and starting a new religion. They faced hardship, ridicule, hostility, and martyr's deaths. In light of this, they could have never sustained such unwavering motivation if they knew what they were preaching was a lie"
The nazis had nothing to gain by lying and starting a new reich. They faced hardship (prison), ridicule (trust me adolf was ridiculed before he wrote Mein Kampf) , hostility (ever see news reels of nazis fighting other street gangs), and a martyr's death. In light of this they could have never sustained such unwavering motivation if they knew what they were preaching was a lie.
I'm skipping some more of this drivel
viaveritasvita wrote "...we know more about the details of the hours immediately before and the actual death of Jesus, in and near Jerusalem, than we know about the death of any other one man in the ancient world. Wilbur Smith"
Really the only account I know of is the Bible. In fact there are lengthy accounts of the hours before the death of several ancient men look to Froissarts chronicles, The accounts of Socrates death (yes accounts more than one), and some of the Lives of Plutarch. Case in fact this assertion just isn't true
viaveritasvita wrote "the histories of other times, and [have examined and weighed] the evidence of those who have written about them, and I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is proved by better and fuller evidence of every sort, to the understanding of a fair inquirer, than the great sign which God hath given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead. Thomas Arnold, Oxford University"
What??? I mean what evidence is there? I mean the Bible gives an account but what physical evidence do we have and please don't say the fraud of Turin. I can name plenty of historic facts that can be proved more fully I'll point to the eruption of MT Vesuvius and burial of Pompey. There are many contemporary accounts of this eruption, there is geologic evidence for the eruption and its outcome, and there is the entire city that was buried by the eruption. I can't think of an event as well documented.
viaveritasvita wrote "The Gospel account of the darkness which fell upon the land during Christ's crucifixion was well known and required a naturalistic explanation from non-Christians. [Non-Christian writing from antiquity]"
Can you please point me to the nonChristian account of this Darkness. I mean you can say there are accounts of it but where is this evidence? Show this evidence
Oh and accounts written hundreds of years after jesus' death don't count I mean people still write science fiction.
To: All; null and void
Our measly 4200 + posts!! We have a loooooong way to go folks.
Nully (if I may use the familiar nick): To say that our posts are "not even close" to a record is an understatement of Biblical proportions!!!
Posted by null and void to viaveritasvita
On General Interest 01/09/2003 9:09 PM EST #775 of 775
Not even close:
Our first thread ( New Zealander builds Hobbit hole ) reached 4,100 posts, and we thought that was big. Our second thread (The New Hobbit Hole ) held us for over 48,000 posts, and we loved it dearly.
To: viaveritasvita
Think of the absurdity of a little band of defeated cowards cowering one day and a few days later transformed into a company that no persecution could silence--and then attempting to attribute this dramatic change to nothing more convincing than a miserable fabrication they were trying to foist upon the world. This simply wouldn't make sense. J.N.D. AndersonNo disrespect intended to any Christians, really. BUT the above quote could also refer to the American liberal. Defeated cowards that become a company that nobody can shut up. Socialism and Communism have been defeated on a national level only to be fought again internally. I thought that was what the quote was referring to at first.
4,306 posted on
01/09/2003 10:53:37 PM PST by
B. Rabbit
(No disrespect, just an observation!)
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson