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To: viaveritasvita
Would I allow for supernatural intervention and what is my understanding of the 2nd law of thermo? Obviously, I ultimately allowed for supernatural intervention and my understanding of the 2nd law of thermo allows for God to be outside space/time

Now that's a reading of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics I hadn't heard before! But in any case, divine intervention from "outside of spacetime" pretty much trashes the 2nd law of thermodynamics, so you'll have to give one of them up.

I agree, so let's either open up the BB theory to the possibility of God

Sounds good to me. Propose an experimental test of God and we'll be on our way.

Isn't this idea of energy conservation dealt with in one of the [three] laws of thermo?

Yes. What do you conclude from this?

3,443 posted on 01/07/2003 10:37:37 AM PST by Physicist
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To: Physicist; All
Physicist: Now that's a reading of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics I hadn't heard before! But in any case, divine intervention from "outside of spacetime" pretty much trashes the 2nd law of thermodynamics, so you'll have to give one of them up.

Well, then here's an excerpt from my monster post 1356 -- I think I'm the recipient of the dubious honor of having posted some of the longest posts herein! *<:o\ -- This says what I believed. Now, to repeat a few things: I understand the controversial nature of some of the things Missler puts out, but I went to a lecture given by Eastman and eventually bought this book (see monster post for a "summary" of that book I did for personal purposes) because it set forth in better terms and in a better way that I can on my own exactly what my studies and thoughts and investigations had been telling me about God and science. Sort of in the same way I came to listen to Rush Limbaugh -- hey! Here's a guy who's saying what I believe! I understand you will probably disagree on scientific points, etc., and I'm sure you understand I can only debate it so far, not being scientifically oriented, but since you said you hadn't heard this reading of the 2nd law of thermo......

Excerpt: "And the atheists immediately protest: 'If God made the universe then who made God?' Because, as Einstein proved, time is itself a physical, natural thing and the Creator would have to be supernatural, questions about God's
origin are meaningless. God, a supernatural being outside our space-time, would have existed before time began [before that fixed point in time when the universe and matter began]. He would not be subject to time-bound
concepts such as birth and death. He would be outside of space-time. Furthermore, God, a supernatural being who existed prior to the creation of the universe (before time) and the laws by which the universe is governed, would not be subject to them. God was never 'young' nor is He aging as
dictated by the 2nd Law."

"Propose an experimental test of God and we'll be on our way."

I wish! I'm sure you have surmised (correctly) that I do not have the level of knowledge to do such a thing, but I'm willing to bet there have been scientists who did (or who can) propose an experimental test of God. I figure, though, that what you are actually saying is that a test be proposed that is acceptable to your peer-reviewed and peer-published group, so whatever we come up with, I doubt we'll be on our way any time soon!

"Yes. What do you conclude from this [energy conservation]?"

Again, I'd be hard-pressed on my own and in my own words to give this a shot, but the monster post (1356) discusses it to my satisfaction. Also, I actually vaguely remember that there are three laws of thermo (could be more that I'm not aware of!), but that the third law doesn't necessarily address the issues we're discussing; sorry to have made it seem there are only two laws.
3,464 posted on 01/07/2003 11:23:28 AM PST by viaveritasvita
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To: Physicist
"But in any case, divine intervention from 'outside of spacetime' pretty much trashes the 2nd law of thermodynamics, so you'll have to give one of them up."

Guess which one! *<;o)
3,465 posted on 01/07/2003 11:25:12 AM PST by viaveritasvita
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