Posted on 11/17/2002 7:03:27 AM PST by FlyingA
As a consultant, I've been hit by the slowing of the economy and the destruction of the tech sector, I've recently caught myself dwelling over the prosperous times of the late 90's when I was making 6 figures. Being one to want to know the wheres, whats... and particularly the why's... I started researching the issues behind the downfall of the tech sector within the U.S.
While this is hardly a comprehensive explanation of what’s wrong with the economy and every aspect of the tech sector, it is in my opinion the quickest and most obvious thing that’s wrong with it today.
What I found out was that through out the mid & late 90's... Large software corporations were experiencing a very public and published labor shortage of skilled tech workers in America. Companies like Microsoft and Oracle among other large corporations began to lobby Washington to increase the cap on H1-B visas from 65,000 to 130,000 per fiscal year looking to get the bill "American Competitiveness in the 21st Century Act" (S.B. 2045) passed.
This bill received a lot of resistance from 1996, when it was first proposed, through 2000 and looked like it was dead several times. Due to amendments on both sides of the isle it remained alive and in Oct 2000, then President Clinton signed the bill S.B. 2045 into law. Which is effective from 2000-2003 and allows the number of 6 year H1-B visa to ultimately be increased to 195,000 per fiscal year. Over the last 2 years, the number of individuals in America under H1-B visa has risen to 650,000 people.
36% of the unemployed 1.8 million Americans could be working if it wasn't for this law. It seems to me that we as high tech workers need to right our Congressmen & Senators and put a stop to this law.....
FlyingA
Most IT managers tend to be under qualified for their positions and often times find themselves in a tight spot, their management expects results. As a result, they hire people "smarter than themselves" to solve the problem. Often times they don't get that right and end up spending to much money for one individual.
Right. I see advertisements for that kind of experience all over monster.com. You must be a headhunter if you truly believe that.
I will admit the trend as of late does not favor those types of hires, but in large corporations is still happens. If companies are willing to pay $250 an hour for an engineer from IBM I can gaurentee a small boutique style consultancy, with enough savy, can weasle in somewhere for around a $100.
1) American kids in general are poorly educated: there are not enough of them who are smart and technically competent to fill ALL the tech jobs.
2) The schools of India and other foreign countries graduate a lot more people who are qualified for American tech market jobs than American schools do.
3) As you move to higher levels, this pattern reverses. The really smart, highly skilled tech types are easier to find in America than via an H1B, because those people were smart enough to make sure they got a good education (the American system doesn't push the ordinary kid to excel anymore but still provides just as many opportunities for the really bright ones). Also, at higher levels being an American citizen is a genuine advantage because it means you can be given more responsibility. Also the H1B types have narrower educations and do not make as good managers or executives.
I have never had to worry about competing with foreigners, but the average unmotivated American kid who's technically oriented will certainly need to get off his butt because he will need to worry. I refrain from judgement here on whether this is a good or a bad thing.
More generally, I have no problem with skilled, economically productive immigrants who speak good English. There are 2 million illegal aliens coming here every year and 2 billion who would come here legally if they could. We should try to reduce the 2 million illegals to zero and pick the best 2 million out of the 2 billion. Those immigrants would IMPROVE our country (but "pick the best" needs to be carefully defined to include cultural compatibility as well as productiveness, good character, intelligence, etc.).
You seem to conclude that work and citizenship is the same thing, and it comes with the territory. True: that is what socialists think.
A visiting worker does just that: works and pay taxes in this country. He may be a part of National Guard too -- of his respective nation. That is where he is a citizen, and that is where he serves. You do not care about other countries --- this thought did not even appear in your considerations --- but that is fair. As for loans, how do you know what hardships that Chinese person went through in his undergraduate years? Again, you simply don'y care.
What you also do not care to describe is that immigrants are less extravagant, spoiled, and attached to conveniences than we, Americans. That does help the budget a great deal, which is why you see a decent car bringing him to work. But he also will have to bring up his children withouyt any support of his family, and when he dies, he is not going to ingherit your $200,000 house either.
Most importantly, you son was playing football in high school when that Chinese person was doing math, physics, and played violin. It's the work ethics and your values that come to fruition. That is why the Chinease, Koreans, Indians, Japanese of the second generation are doing so well in our colleges.
Your view is one-sided, and the principles by which you judge are unfair. One should be on guard against envy, my friend.
Except the 90's were never prosperous times. It was only an illusion.
The "conservatives" around FR seem to be all in favor of a free market economy, as long as their behinds are covered. The H1B program is a deregulation of the labor market that serves to advance Capitalism.This is a popular misconception. It would be free-market if the government did not carefully select who was allowed in the country based upon their profession. Instead what happens is that certain large software corporations, acting through government, give preference to individuals in a selected few professions. This is most decidedly not a free-market force.
Imagine how you would feel if tomorrow the government started only allowing immigration of workers in your chosen profession. As salaries in your profession dropped, I think you would be well within your rights to ask "why me?".
The other factor that many people fail to consider is that the H1-B holders are not working for the prevailing free-market wage. What happens is that the firms that bring these people over here (mostly contract labor firms and not the large companies that ultimately use their labor) control their H1-B status and can at any time revoke this status and cause the person to have to return to their country of origin. They use this as way of coercing the individuals to work for a greatly diminished wage. It is, in some ways, a form of slave-labor. In case you are curious, I learned all this from an Indian friend of mine who had escaped one of these situations.
If you want to find out more about this, there is an organization called The Programmers' Guild that closely tracks H1-B related immigration laws. I do not endorse this organization at all, but they are a good place to go to find out about pending legislation. Follow the above link to their web site if you want to find out more.
To reiterate, we all play different roles in life. One could also complain that, being a father is made harder because one is also a son, for example. You cannot complain that because your marriage obligations are hard you should not be a daughter.
Similarly, in social area. One plays the roles of a citizen and an employee. Your relationship as a citizen is with others in this country, and the Chinese person has the same with his country. As a worker, you have a relationship with the emloyer: you provide services, and receive compensation. So does the Chinese person. You pay taxes for public services you receive --- roads, transportation, schools --- and so does the Chinese person.
The only difference is where one serves in the military: your son does it hear and the Chinese person does that elsewhere. That's all.
Are you sure you are a conservative? You surely internalized the mentality and methods of the liberals.
This statement is not racist: it applies to all immigrants, including your forefathers, whereever they hailed from.
But I do see that you have problems not only with envy but with other commandments as well. Have you heard of not making a false accusations? If you accuse someone of racism, you have a duty to at least explain why my statement appears racist to you. Instead, you simply throw it to me.
YOu have no right to accuse people so lightly. And I do take offense at your statement. You should wash your mouth with soap. I do not know much about your son, and I am grateful to him for his service to his country. But he surely has a morally confused mother for a parent.
Have a good day.
That's part of the answer.
The other part is that the high-growth tech sector was severely overhyped during the '90s.
It is now a more mature, saturated market.
The hyperinflated bubble has burst.
The gold rush is over.
It ain't coming back to the rescue.
Rather weak argument. How long does it take to register to draft? As long as it does to go to the post office and buy stamps?
Get over it. This is a global economy and everyone better be able to compete globaly. That doesnt mean that Americans necessarily have to be paid less but they certainly have to be more productive. If H1-B1's can be purchased for half as much and are nearly as productive than you and your kid, then they ought to get the job. BTW, the work could just be outsourced to India or another third world country. At least this way, the money paid in salaries continues to circulate in our economy.
Now if you want to say that my son who gets $2,000 a month in the National Guard (he was making $6,000) is not his market value I can give you his wife's address where you can send a check to make up this inequity.
Now you are sounding socialistic again.
And what percentage of OUR college aid kids have ever served in the military, much less slept in the rain (other than waiting in line for concert tickets)? Seems like you always play with the facts to make your arguement appear stronger than it really is.
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