Is Satan Bound Today?

BibleBB ^ | Mike Vlach

[Corin Stormhands]

So, if you want me to regard you as a Christian, you are going to have to recant an awful lot of stuff.

Gee xzins. doc apparently thinks he can rip your name out of the Book of Life...

...too bad he doesn't even have a Library Card.

[CCWoody]

The kingdom wasn't there then, and it's not here yet today. ~ "grace"believer

You must think that Jesus was such a liar for saying this:


• Mark 1:14-15 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."

Woody.

[drstevej]

***So, if you want me to regard you as a Christian, you are going to have to recant an awful lot of stuff.***

For we must all appear before the confessional of the_doc; that every one may receive his mark on on the forehead, according to that the_doc deems acceptable...

[fortheDeclaration]

Yet another well-reasoned, well-documented, well-written post!

Amen!

[fortheDeclaration]

Now, one more time, the gospel has a proper name that is exactly 5 words and the gospel can be expressed in exactly 3 words. Can you do it?

I find the Gospel is 1Cor. 15:3-4, that Jesus, died for our sins, was buried and rose again according to the Scriptures.

Paul says any other Gospel is a false Gospel (Gal.1:8)

So, let us see if Woody's 'Gospel' matches that of the Bible.

[xzins]

***So, if you want me to regard you as a Christian, you are going to have to recant an awful lot of stuff.***

Shucks, guys. Sometimes I think he's just funnin' with me, pullin' my leg, makin' fun of the slow kid.... ya know what I mean?

[the_doc]

See James 3:1, brother Pastor. Compare it with the warning to pastors in 1 Corinthians 3:11-15--another passage which the dispensationalists have not taken very seriously.

Frankly, I would hate to be standing in your shoes on Judgment Day. You have one of the most Biblically flippant attitudes I have ever seen in a pastor. It thoroughly explains why you mock my sober, nouthetic approach.

You need to face the music squarely in John 5:25-29. You need to face the fact that DTS is turning out a lot of ministers who aren't necessarily very good ministers after all.

My point here is that millennial doctrine is not all that hard. But you fellows, having bought into an error and founded an entire seminary on that very error, can't escape the error. It's because of your party spirit. It's unthinkable for you to admit that you haven't understood the gospel as well as you certainly should have.

If you have nothing substantive to contribute in the way of expositional theology concerning the central dispute over John 5:25-29, you really ought to back off and start listening to more Biblically qualified teachers than you. And oddly enough, I am one of those who does happen to know whereof he speaks.

Look, I didn't ask for this role of trying to help you against your proud will. But here I am. I really do care about the Truth in a way which seems alien to you. So, if you can only pop off at a reasonably competent Bible teacher through your unscriptural jokes, I will be forced to make you look bad every time. You see, this is not a game for me.

But come to think of it, if you try to defend your premillennial position, I promise to make you look bad in that, too.

You can't win in this. This is no "artificially nice" seminary classroom with a lot of chatty brats who don't even understand the warning contained in James 3:1.

Come on, brother, Buy the Truth and sell it not. This matter is more serious than you have realized.

[CCWoody]

Apparently you believe God saved you without you responding to His Word. ~ "grace"believer

Nothing could be further from the truth. I said:


I did not "make a decision" for Christ in order to get "saved". I believe that Christ has already "saved" me. And that is a true gospel distinction.

Now, how can I make that gospel distinction between what you are preaching and what is found in the Word of God unless I am responding the word of God.

Furthermore, I said:


The Lord opened my blind eyes to see and I saw what was lacking in the afflictions of Christ.

The apostle Paul describes this path to knowledge of Jesus Christ in 2 Co. 4:4-6:


• The god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.... For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

Notice that Paul speaks of God's enlightening our hearts (as in the work of creation--now that sounds like regeneration) to apprehend "the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ." He is talking about people who have never seen the historical Jesus. What they "see" is the verbal (i.e. the Lord opened my blind eyes to see) portrayal of Jesus in the Gospel, that is, in the apostolic preaching of Christ.

There are 2 things that make this path possible.


1. The reality of the glory of Christ shining through the portrayal in the Bible.
2. The work of God to open the eyes of our blinded hearts in the work of creation for us.

This is very different from someone telling us that the Bible is true or us "making a decision" for Christ. If that were true, then this person who convinced us would have the final authority.

Sometimes this TRUE path is called the "testimony of the Holy Spirit." An old catechism says it this way: "The Spirit of God, bearing witness by and with the Scriptures in the heart of man, is alone able fully to persuade it that they are the very Word of God." God does not skirt the Scriptures. He simply removes the blindness of hostility and rebellion (are you reading ksen), and thus opens the eyes of our hearts to see the radiant brightnes of Christ.

BTW, have you figured out that I have already addressed all of your scripture cites with these above words? Probably not!

I suppose you think that's His grace because you've always been saved. How wrong that is since we're all born spiritually dead and need life. Christ, Himself, said that His words are "life." ~ "grace"believer

Let's look at a little bit of that "life".


• Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,...

The grace of God which saves all who will ever be saved was given to those who are being saved before time began. Wow! Talk about particular redemption. I don't see anywhere that making an "intelligent decision" is part of that equation.

Furthermore if by grace God saved you from your birth, or possibly before, then His grace doesn't apply to all, which flies in the face of His statement through Paul that His will is for all men to be saved,1Tim. 2:4, not some, or only Calvinists, or Baptists, or Catholics or Jews or ... Compare this verse with Mt. 20:28 where Christ says He came to "give his life a ransom for many." ~ "grace"believer

If it is truly God's will that everyone is saved and you prayed for the actual salvation of the entire human race without exception then will everyone in the entire human race be saved? For we know that of prayers concerning the will of God the Lord Jesus has promised: "That will I do."

Woody.

P.S. Just because the apostolic preaching of the gospel of the kingdom of God is the method by which faith comes to a sinner does not mean that faith is not a work of the grace of God.

We all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. Beholding is becoming. Seeing Christ saves and sanctifies. Therefore, the Lord opened my blind eyes to see and I saw what was lacking in the afflictions of Christ.

BTW, I'm outta here! The south counties are overrun with horrible bloodthirsty creatures called deer and I am called to stem the tide of the menace.

[drstevej]

Please understand that my flippancy is a measure of my respect for you.

[the_doc]

My point, of course, is that you have to grapple with the expositional (and therefore hermeneutical) points contained in my #2060.

You have refused--because you can't. (Gosh, if you were to address my arguments honestly, you would immediately become an amill. And that is manifestly unthinkable for too-proud DTS grads.)

[RnMomof7]

Gee xzins. doc apparently thinks he can rip your name out of the Book of Life...

Come on corin that is ~NOT~ what doc said..he said regard him as a Christian..in plain english that means treat his words with the weight of a christian ..

Please lets not put words in each others mouths ok?

[nobdysfool]

doc, I've gotten to the place where I am really disturbed in my spirit by your pronouncements about the spiritual state of those who do not agree with you, no matter how right you think you are. All I can say is, I'm glad you are not God, because if you were, I could understand Satan rebelling against you.

I think it's great that you are so convinced of your position, but try as I will, I cannot resolve the points I see where you have presupposed certain things (the very thing you accuse us of). I'm not going to go into the points now, but I have addressed them in the past, over the course of many posts.

My main objection is that you have more or less set yourself up as judge and jury here, with regard to other people's salvation. That you should not do. Oh, you can do it (you have been) but not with God's blessing or unction. You do not have a corner on the truth, nor are you set in authority over us. Your opinions are your own, and you are entitled to them. Please afford the rest of us the same courtesy.

I love the Lord Jesus Christ with all my heart. I pray daily that He will teach me from His Word, grant me Wisdom and Knowledge, and enable me to not only know the Word, but live it as well. I have been His for 31 years. So when you tell me, or anyone else who has serious disagreement with your Amil position, that to disagree with you is to not be Christian, and to question the state of a person's soul on that basis, I must object to your taking a role that you're neither suited nor equipped for: that of a judge and jury. Your opinions about my salvation, or that of anyone else here would be better kept to yourself.

[fortheDeclaration]

So Grace then is God saving those who are smart enough to choose him?

No, Grace shows what how wicked we are, that we are going to hell, and that we cannot save ourselves.

Believing that revelation from the Holy Spirit humbles the individual so he repents (turns) from self to the only one who can save Him, Christ.

That is simple obedience (Jn.6:29) which no man can take 'credit' for since it is not a work (Rom.4:4-5) but that which we were commanded to do,

So likewise, ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants, we have done that which was our duty to do (Lk.17:10)

Instead of seeing that man is involved in salvation in responding by faith (not a work) to the free gift, you would rather make God the author of sin and twist clear scriptures such as 2Tim.2:4, Jn.3:16, 2Pet.3:9, etc.

Man is either going to hell because God could save all, but will not to, or because God would save all, but cannot not.

The second is true because God's love will not make anyone respond to His love.

Moreover, no Calvinist can give one objective reason why God would choose him and not someone else for salvation.

Did God put your name in a hat and out it came?

Calvinism gives more of a basis for more self-righteous pride then Arminianism, since you were the one that God chose and God, for some reason, rejected the others, even though all equally deserved the same fate.

You can hide that pride behind a lot of false rhetoric, but it comes out the same attitude that the Pharissee had in Lk 18:11.

The followig verse says, for everyman that humblteth himself shall be exalted.(Lk.18:14)

Thus, humbling oneself is what God wants, and the humbling comes in response to the revelation by the Holy Spirit that we are sinners and need a saviour, not by being regenerated first and then believing.

[CCWoody]

Evidently Corin and the boys think that it is perfectly OK to believe that God does not know the future and still be treated like a Christian. It's part of that anything goes as long as you say you believe mentality.

[the_doc]

I notice that you are just ducking me again.

One of my serious complaints against a lot of DTS grads that I have met is that they have been taught to use aloofness as a thing of pastoral power, as a kind of pastoral sceptre.

It's phony. A lot of their devotees love it, but I find it loathesome.

The aloofness of which I am speaking is different from being dogmatic, from being confrontational. Based on what I have observed, DTS grads often just want to project the attitude that they are too important to be bothered by stuff which might get them "dirty."

In the meantime, I get to endure your sarcasm for doing a proper job--the very one which you simply refuse to do.

[drstevej]

[jude24]

Moreover, no Calvinist can give one objective reason why God would choose him and not someone else for salvation. Did God put your name in a hat and out it came? Calvinism gives more of a basis for more self-righteous pride then Arminianism, since you were the one that God chose and God, for some reason, rejected the others, even though all equally deserved the same fate. You can hide that pride behind a lot of false rhetoric, but it comes out the same attitude that the Pharissee had in Lk 18:11.

This shows a complete misunderstanding of Calvinism. There may be some Calvinists who think God picked them because of something in them. I'll quote a hymn, since hymns are often a good window into what people believe:

On such love, my soul, still ponder,
Love so great, so rich, so free;
Say, whilst lost in holy wonder,
Why, O Lord such love to me?
Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
Grace shall reign eternally!

-- "Sovereign Grace O'er Sin Abounding,"
John Kent

Every Calvinist I know realizes that there is absolutely nothing to commend themselves to God. I know that God didn't choose me based on anything good about myself. Spurgeon said, "It's a good thing God choose me before I was born. He certainly would not have done so afterwards."

I can't speak for all Calvinists (a lot of Calvinists have good doctrine, but are not themselves regenerate), but all the ones I know are the most humble.

Incidentally, the Arminian is the one who must believe that God's election is based on something good in themselves. Most Arminians believe God's election is based on His foreknowledge of what your choice will be, correct? For that to be the case, it must follow that YOU make the choice. For YOU to make the choice, there must be something good in you to make you make that choice -- intelligence, spiritual affinity, whatever. But that you and I would both agree is unscriptural. Thus, you have a small contradiction.

[lockeliberty]

Instead of seeing that man is involved in salvation in responding by faith (not a work) to the free gift

Faith is the free gift. (Eph.2) LOL

Moreover, no Calvinist can give one objective reason why God would choose him and not someone else for salvation.

LOL

Still trying to compare God to your puny human reasoning.

LOL

[CCWoody]

Among the many things that xzins flirts around for which persons like the_doc and I treat him as if he is not saved is the idea that God simply doesn't know what is going to happen tomorrow. So, you tell me, is denying the fundamental nature of God a fatal heresy or just an amusing plaything?

xzins also maintains that if you pray, you can actually alter what God already knows.

etc.

[CCWoody]

that man is involved in salvation ~ not lockeliberty

Just another bit of man having a reason to glory in the presence of God.

Woody.

P.S. Wish me luck. We need to take 6 does from this lease in 2 weeks. I'm taking 8 rounds so I should have way too much ammo.