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So you believe that Revelation was fulfilled in 70 AD? 467 posted on 11/02/2002 9:42 PM PST by #3Fan

"Belief" has got nuthin' to do with it, it's a simple matter of accomplished fact.

Substantial portions of Revelation were fulfilled in 70AD.

An important point to remember is that most of the references to "the Earth" in Revelation are not Kosmos (the "world" or universe) but rather Ge (the LAND). Thus, if you wat to read Revelation the way that John wrote it (regardless of the English translations), it is generally appropriate to read Revelations as concerning judgments upon THE LAND -- of Israel.

Not "the world". THE LAND of Israel.

Some examples...

And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one-and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence." ~~ (Flavius Josephus, THE JEWISH WAR)

And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

And now there were three treacherous factions in the city, the one parted from the other... [John] sallied out with a great number upon Simon and his party; and this he did always in such parts of the city as he could come at, till he set on fire those houses that were full of corn, and of all other provisions.

The same thing was done by Simon, . . . as if they had, on purpose done it to serve the Romans, by destroying what the city had laid up against the siege, and by thus cutting off the nerves of their own power . . . and that almost all the corn was burnt, which would have been sufficient for a siege of many years. So they were taken by the means of famine, which it was impossible they should have been, unless they had thus prepared the way for it by this procedure. (Flavius Josephus, THE JEWISH WAR)

And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

The stone missiles [of the Roman catapults] weighed a talent and traveled two furlongs or more, and their impact not only on those who were hit first, but also on those behind them, was enormous. At first the Jews kept watch for the stone — for it was white — and its approach was intimated to the eye by its shining surface as well as to the ear by its whizzing sound. Watchmen posted on the towers gave the warnings whenever the engine was fired and the stone came hurtling toward them, shouting in their native tongue: 'The Son is coming!' ~~ (Flavius Josephus, THE JEWISH WAR)

I could go on like this for hours....

"Belief" has got nuthin' to do with it, it's a simple matter of accomplished fact.

When did a third of the ships at sea sink?

Substantial portions of Revelation were fulfilled in 70AD.

Substantial portions? If you really believed God's word, you'd believe it all passed. 70 AD may have been a type, there have been mant through history, but the prophesies of Revelation have not passed.

An important point to remember is that most of the references to "the Earth" in Revelation are not Kosmos (the "world" or universe) but rather Ge (the LAND). Thus, if you wat to read Revelation the way that John wrote it (regardless of the English translations), it is generally appropriate to read Revelations as concerning judgments upon THE LAND -- of Israel.

That could be. But when were the elect delivered before the antiChrist and awed the world with their teachings? Revelation says the kingdoms of the earth will be no more. After 70 AD there were many kingdoms that ruled the earth and even the land of Jerusalem if you want to push the locality argument.

Not "the world". THE LAND of Israel. Some examples...

I agree "erets" can be as small as a field.

I could go on like this for hours....

No point in cutting and pasting longwinded articles, I don't read it, I just delete it. No need to go on for hours, answer the kingdom question and and the ships at sea question and the elect question, then we'll go from there.