Posted on 10/23/2002 1:04:07 AM PDT by Roscoe
Shhhh... don't tell him that, he'll just get confused.
You guys are hilarious. A thousand years is as a day to God. When did a third of the ships at sea become destroyed?
So you believe that the bible admonishes us not to take the counsel of doctors?
Do you believe that the ten commandments are no longer in effect?
John wasn't writing his letter to God. Hope that helps.
It's not tresspassing.
That is the same with the extremist Muslim nationalists as well. They believe that it is proper for the state to administer God's law.
OP is the one that says God's old testament ordinances should be enforced by the state. I've not said that.
That would include entering a home to kill a person accused of walking unescorted in some Muslim theocracies and if you are to be consistent, then the State would be within its rights to execute unbelievers.
Nope, the bible prohibits this.
After all, if all of the commandments are under the civil powers, "Thou Shalt put no other God's before me" is fair game for the magistrate.
Except for the fact that the bible says not to uproot the tares.
Irrelevant.
Revelant.
If the civil law provides the authorization to trespass (something forbidden in the Bible as has been pointed out to you)...
Kings ordinance neighbor to neighbor. A drug dealer is not my neighbor. A lot of the old testament ordinances are not in effect anymore anyway.
...where there is no known crime being committed (harm against another individual) then the civil law has just fallen out of God's favor and authority.
Drug dealers commit harm to society. They are evil.
If you are going to hold fast to this farce you have erected, then you need to admit that freedom to practice a religion other than Christianity makes the civil law of the US unclean.
God says to not grieve with your teachings.
So you do then agree that the Constitution is not of God?
The constitution was written in compliance with God's laws.
So you believe that Revelation was fulfilled in 70 AD?
So are Idolaters, Unbelievers, and those who get Intoxicated on their own Private Property -- Neighbors, or aren't they? Since if they are not "neighbors", then the State can throw them in Jail too, eh??
There are 613 juridical Laws in the Old Testament. NOT ONE sanctions State Action against Intoxication. Do you suppose that God just... forgot? ~~ Hard drugs didn't exist then. Alcohol was obviously OK.
Bollocks. Opium and Hashish have been used in the Middle East going back at least 3,500 years -- since the Jews were still in Egypt, and earlier.
There are 613 juridical Laws in the Old Testament. NOT ONE sanctions State Action against Intoxication. Do you suppose that God just... forgot?
have you no common sense? If these particular 7,000 were reserved together with Elijah to Belief in God rather than Ba'al, thousands of years ago then this Event has already happened, thousands of years ago. ~~ Earth to OP: the antiChrist has not reigned yet. LOL
Earth to #3Fan: Romans 11:4 says not one word about the AntiChrist. It says that God reserved 7,000 togeether with Elijah against the worship of Ba'al. Thousands of years ago.
Completed Event. Finis. End of Story.
You botched that one rather badly.
And when did this event take place? You're hilarious.
It happened in the days of Elijah, just as God said -- unless you're calling Him a Liar.
No, Hebrews says that the Sacrificial Laws have been fulfilled in Christ. ~~ Cite scripture on that so I can see where you're coming from. With you, it's hard to tell.
Hebrews 10:1-14.
Hebrews says nothing about the Law against Trespass being eliminated. ~~ Cite scripture.
There isn't any contrary Scripture to cite, you Biblical-Illiterate, because there isn't one word in the entire New Testament which invalidates the Trespass Laws.
Ergo, the Laws against Trespass are still in effect -- because there is not one New Testament scripture contrary to them.
Well, if that's the case... when Hitler's storm troopers invaded the Private Property of Germany's Jewish population and turned them out of their shops and homes, were they committing Trespassing and Theft? Or were they just, y'know, enforcing the Civil Law against Jews owning private property? ~~ Do you enjoy repeating yourself? They broke Paul's "Do unto others" commandment.
Cite the verse to which you are referring, please.
A sorcerer is one that intentionally fools people with chemicals. Doctors don't do that.
Paul teaches what is in effect and what isn't. Ten commandments yes, many of the old testament ordinances no.
Nobody lives more than 120 years. When a person dies, they begin to immediately realize Revelation teachings.
Really....
That would include entering a home to kill a person accused of walking unescorted in some Muslim theocracies and if you are to be consistent, then the State would be within its rights to execute unbelievers.
Nope, the bible prohibits this.
The Bible commands this. Adultry was an executable offense. Do you just not like certain parts of the Bible and feel free to ignore them at your whim?
If you are going to rely on this "uproot the tares" argument, then please explain why prosecuting people for the obscure "pharmacus" reference you have provided is justifiable, but prosecuting the highest sin (infadelity to God) is not? Would you not be uprooting the tares by prosecuting people for intoxication? Do you realize that by your own logic, the Constitution can't possibly be ordained by God since it forbids such disregard for property?
Do you really believe that you as a private citizen are authorized to enter your "un-neighbor's" house in order to make a citizens arrest for the crime of pot-smoking or intoxication?
Well that is debatable. But lets just assume 120 years is correct. "Must shortly come to pass" is pretty plain.
Furthermore, this sort of thing occurs often with "scholars" who ignore plain words. Jesus said "this generation will not pass..." I don't know how that can be twisted into something 2000 years and beyond but people do it.
"Belief" has got nuthin' to do with it, it's a simple matter of accomplished fact.
Substantial portions of Revelation were fulfilled in 70AD.
An important point to remember is that most of the references to "the Earth" in Revelation are not Kosmos (the "world" or universe) but rather Ge (the LAND). Thus, if you wat to read Revelation the way that John wrote it (regardless of the English translations), it is generally appropriate to read Revelations as concerning judgments upon THE LAND -- of Israel.
Not "the world". THE LAND of Israel.
Some examples...
And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
The same thing was done by Simon, . . . as if they had, on purpose done it to serve the Romans, by destroying what the city had laid up against the siege, and by thus cutting off the nerves of their own power . . . and that almost all the corn was burnt, which would have been sufficient for a siege of many years. So they were taken by the means of famine, which it was impossible they should have been, unless they had thus prepared the way for it by this procedure. (Flavius Josephus, THE JEWISH WAR)
And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
I could go on like this for hours....
But you just said that, if the State outlaws the Property, then it isn't Theft.
So how was the Nazi State violating the Golden Rule against Theft, when it confiscated Outlawed jewish property? After all, You just said that it isn't Theft if the State outlaws the Property.
So, what are you saying...
Well, if that's the case... when Hitler's storm troopers invaded the Private Property of Germany's Jewish population and turned them out of their shops and homes -- were they just, y'know, enforcing the Civil Law against Jews owning private property??
How could they be violating the Golden Rule?? For after all -- as you say -- it's not theft if the State outlaws the Property??
God specifically said to not interfere with a person's beliefs. Not so with drug dealers.
Bollocks. Opium and Hashish have been used in the Middle East going back at least 3,500 years -- since the Jews were still in Egypt, and earlier.
So there were a lot of opium addicts and hashish addicts during Moses' and David's times?
There are 613 juridical Laws in the Old Testament. NOT ONE sanctions State Action against Intoxication. Do you suppose that God just... forgot?
Did he forget about speed limits too?
Earth to #3Fan: Romans 11:4 says not one word about the AntiChrist. It says that God reserved 7,000 togeether with Elijah against the worship of Ba'al. Thousands of years ago.
Baal is antiChrist.
Completed Event. Finis. End of Story. You botched that one rather badly.
You believe that Revelation took place in 70 AD, don't you. I'm not the one that botched things. LOL
It happened in the days of Elijah, just as God said -- unless you're calling Him a Liar.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Do you agree that Matthew came after Elijah?
Hebrews 10:1-14.
The old testament ordinances were done away with.
Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
The commandments and the 'do unto others' applies now, along with God's order to follow civil law.
There isn't any contrary Scripture to cite, you Biblical-Illiterate, because there isn't one word in the entire New Testament which invalidates the Trespass Laws.
Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
You do agree that the old covenant has vanished away, don't you? And now Paul says to follow the commandmnets and love your neighbor as yourself.
Ergo, the Laws against Trespass are still in effect -- because there is not one New Testament scripture contrary to them.
It's part of the old covenant.
Cite the verse to which you are referring, please.
Do you have a memory?
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
If you believe that Prohibitionist Muslims (or Prohibitionist Christians, for that matter) should not break into your house and put a gun to your head to prevent you from "becoming intoxicated"...
...do thou likewise.
For this is the law and the prophets.
So then you agree that the Constitution is not a libertarian document?
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