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Legal Effect of a Pardon
1/20/2025 | Me

Posted on 01/20/2025 11:13:52 AM PST by Stanwood_Dave

ArtII.S2.C1.3.7 Legal Effect of a Pardon - Constitution Annotated

More broadly, the {U.S. Supreme} Court ruled in several cases ... the Court in Burdick v. United States, 236 U.S. 79 (1915,) stated that a pardon carries an imputation of guilt; acceptance a confession of it.


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: acceptance; admissionofguilt; legaleffect; pardons; prezpardon
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To: iontheball

Don’t count on it. Roberts can round up 5 votes to overturn the Burdick decision on the grounds that “it was so long ago and outdated for today’s norms”.


21 posted on 01/20/2025 11:37:11 AM PST by damper99
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To: Carl Vehse
Congress need to subpoena Traitojoe to testify about the alleged pardons. If he can’t remember signing them or what they are about, then the pardons should be considered fraudulent documents issued by his puppetmasters.

Great point

22 posted on 01/20/2025 11:37:20 AM PST by FatherofFive (we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor)
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To: Stanwood_Dave

This would be important in civil suits: as the standard of evidence for criminal guilt (”beyond a reasonable doubt”) is higher than in a civil suit (”preponderance of the evidence”).

I would assume Dem defense lawyers to claim “no specific crime” named: but the pardon is blanket for all crimes.

The pardons should be challenged in court.

The best way to resolve this would be to imprison without bail (”flight risk / national security risk”), and try them for anything they can think of.

If they want to hide behind a pardon, then they are admitting guilt.

Then, once guilty, even if there is not Federal criminal punishment, you now have liability by directed verdict in civil cases...


23 posted on 01/20/2025 11:37:35 AM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Stanwood_Dave

A commenter on Instapundit wrote:

“Interesting that the Biden family pardons say non-violent offences but Fauci’s covers violent as well.
Trump should just ignore these pardons and name special prosecutors on all this monkey business.”


24 posted on 01/20/2025 11:38:04 AM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: iontheball
Furthermore, those granted a pardon now no longer can take the 5th Amendment refusal of testify about their criminality.

Only if the pardon is "accepted" by being filed in a court proceeding. If that doesn't happen - and it won't unless the person is prosecuted - they can still assert the Fifth. That was the precise issue in Burdick.

25 posted on 01/20/2025 11:39:08 AM PST by Bruce Campbells Chin ( )
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To: grey_whiskers
Then, once guilty, even if there is not Federal criminal punishment, you now have liability by directed verdict in civil cases...

No, you wouldn't. That language from Burdick is dicta.

26 posted on 01/20/2025 11:40:24 AM PST by Bruce Campbells Chin ( )
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To: grey_whiskers

We might need a short Constitution amendment: “The President cannot pardon any undiscovered crime.”


27 posted on 01/20/2025 11:40:36 AM PST by Mr Rogers
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To: Stanwood_Dave

What’s to prevent the discovery of evidence, indictment of the perpetrator, trial, and conviction?

The fact they won’t serve prison time is the only benefit of the pardon.


28 posted on 01/20/2025 11:41:01 AM PST by nesnah (Infringe - act so as to limit or undermine [something]; encroach on)
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To: SoConPubbie

Why was Fauci pardoned for violent offenses?
Why back to 2014?

Proof the scandemic was used to overthrow Trump.


29 posted on 01/20/2025 11:43:33 AM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: SoConPubbie

I seriously doubt that these pre-emptive pardons will survive a Supreme Court review.
*******************************
It may be reviewed again and changed but the USSC has already ruled that it’s legal. Ford, Bush, Carter, and Lincoln all did it.But that’s just Federal. They have to have committed some state crimes along the way.


30 posted on 01/20/2025 11:44:44 AM PST by sunny bonobo
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin

Maybe not directed verdict; but if you sue someone related to a crime of which they have already been found guilty, the standard of preponderance of the evidence has already been surpassed.

One would only need to show harm related to the criminal conduct.


31 posted on 01/20/2025 11:46:29 AM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Stanwood_Dave

President Ford used to carry this quote and case cite around with him when asked about his pardon of Nixon. A person who does not believe himself to be guilty doesn’t need to accept it. A person who does accept it is considered to have been guilty of the crime by the courts, although not everyone shares that belief.


32 posted on 01/20/2025 11:48:08 AM PST by Dr. Franklin ("A republic, if you can keep it." )
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To: sunny bonobo
It may be reviewed again and changed but the USSC has already ruled that it’s legal. Ford, Bush, Carter, and Lincoln all did it.But that’s just Federal. They have to have committed some state crimes along the way.

Please provide proof.

We are not talking about regular pardons. That is constitutional.

I doubt you can find any examples where any other President has granted a pre-emptive pardon where a person has not even been charged.

If you have Supreme Court rulings that prove your point please provide.
33 posted on 01/20/2025 11:49:42 AM PST by SoConPubbie (Trump has all the right enemies, DeSantis has all the wrong friends.)
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin

Re: 20 - thank you for underscoring that point.


34 posted on 01/20/2025 11:50:30 AM PST by Fury
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To: SoConPubbie

Read the constitution the power of the pardon is absolute and it’s not subject to Supreme Court review or congressional review.


35 posted on 01/20/2025 11:51:02 AM PST by Captain Peter Blood
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To: Stanwood_Dave

36 posted on 01/20/2025 11:51:06 AM PST by DannyTN
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To: SoConPubbie

Re: 33 - President Nixon had not been charged with any crimes.


37 posted on 01/20/2025 11:51:43 AM PST by Fury
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

Does the pardon go away if the witness perjures themself?


38 posted on 01/20/2025 11:54:51 AM PST by EQAndyBuzz (Drill Baby Drill!)
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To: iamgalt
No time like the present to legally test these pardons "loopholes".

These pardons turn the movie "Devil's Advocate" into reality.

39 posted on 01/20/2025 11:55:38 AM PST by RckyRaCoCo (Time to throw them out of the Temple...again)
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To: Fury
Re: 33 - President Nixon had not been charged with any crimes.

Was the pardon challenged legally by anyone and did it make it to the Supreme Court to be reviewed?
40 posted on 01/20/2025 11:55:43 AM PST by SoConPubbie (Trump has all the right enemies, DeSantis has all the wrong friends.)
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