Posted on 06/04/2014 9:51:45 PM PDT by boatbums
Almost 800 babies and children were buried in a mass grave in Ireland near a home for unmarried mothers run by nuns, according to new research Wednesday which throws more light on the Irish Catholic Church's troubled past.
Death records suggest 796 children, from newborns to eight-year-olds, were deposited in a grave near a Catholic-run home for unmarried mothers during the 35 years it operated from 1925 to 1961.
Historian Catherine Corless, who made the discovery, says her study of death records for the St Mary's home in Tuam in County Galway suggests that a former septic tank near the home was a mass grave.
The septic tank, full to the brim with bones, was discovered in 1975 by locals when concrete slabs covering the tank broke up.
Until now, locals believed the bones mainly stemmed from the Great Irish famine of the 1840s when hundreds of thousands perished.
St Mary's, run by the Bons Secours Sisters, was one of several such 'mother and baby' homes in early 20th century Ireland.
Thousands of unmarried pregnant women -- labelled at the time as 'fallen women' -- were sent to the homes to have their babies.
The women were ostracised by the conservative-Catholic society and were often forced to hand over their children for adoption.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Sad people, really. But what an education FR has been. I will never defend evangelicals again. And that’s pretty sad when you think about it.
Miss marmelstein, I urge you to reconsider this judgment.
There are millions of terrifically good Evangelicals out there, including a bunch here in my very own tribe of in-laws and second bunch who are my allies in pro-life work and a third bunch who have faithfully stood with us Catholics right here in Upper East Tennessee in defending Religious Liberty.
We know each other, we pray for each other and we love each other.
The existence and activities of a few... hmmm... difficult types here at FR has jack-nothing to do with the majority of Evangelicals anywhere. They're not even the majority here.
Unfortunately, the FR Religion Forum is a very bad neighborhood, and if you form your opinions on the basis of what you see here, you will develop very whacked-out perceptions.
This is not good for you spiritually.
Seek out the good 'uns and form friendly relationships with them.
As for the rest --- well, the tagline is what a wise and holy priest once advised:
Mrs. Don-o: I truly appreciate your kind post. Sadly, after my experience with FR, I sought out other forums to see a different point of view. In almost every case, the same bigotry exhibited itself. Hatred, hatred, hatred. I did have to laugh at one who wrote that Catholics were forbidden to bring bibles into the church, lol!
Bless you, Mrs., and I’ll try to keep my mind open.
Wow, in your post you stated that we will be divided until “certain polemicists recognize that salvation comes to those who put their faith in Jesus Christ rather than a religion.”
“The world according to Boatbums,” lol. So much for tolerance.
So do you hold Jews, Hindus, Muslims, and Buddhists in the same level of contempt, or is it only Catholics that occupy your time? With all the problems in the world today, why do you choose to spend one moment here bashing a fellow Christian based religion?
Interesting correlation - do you always conclude that someone who doesn't agree with you is ignoring facts? Fascinating.
Now I see you are arguing that there were, in fact, not 800 babies in a septic tank. But weren't you trying to justify finding 800 babies in a septic tank earlier? Why then now say they didn't exist?
I guess you need different facts. The old ones let people make up their minds in a way that didn't please you.
And that - right there - is the heart of the problem.
Treat young girls as “fallen” - as the fathers of these babies escape scorn and shame.
What are parents to do? Send their daughters to The Home. Try to give them another chance at life - leave the forgotten babies with the nuns.
(One article I read described The Home as being involved with Protestants as well)
PARTLY a religious issue - obviously- concerning teachings regarding fornication.
But when a group of people determine that child abandonment is a less severe “sin” than fornication ... That is a cultural problem.
So it appears while The Home may have helped families cope with embarrassment & shame - a bunch of outnumbered nuns were expected to care for an unmanageable number of children with little money - food- or supplies.
Anyone who read Angela’s Ashes has an idea what the mortality rate was like during this time period due to disease.
Evil?
I’m guessing if you do not have the resources to properly feed, clothe, and care for a large number of children - you won’t be wasting money on coffins.
Skimming your comments, and not defending any alleged corrupt (not within the teachings of the church) behaviors of those in charge here, my question is this:
What do people in our country, currently, do to hold the boys and men responsible in the case of abandonment?
Good article - thanks for posting
Well - now that we have blood tests & DNA testing - it’s much more difficult for a father to say “not mine” & walk away.
Its also more difficult for families to shield their sons now that mothers can seek remedy through the courts.
Of course - winning a judgement of paternal support is not the same as receiving actual payment.
Some states are denying renewal of drivers licenses for those who fail to pay support.
This is all monetary - which helps - but still doesn’t address the VALUE system that says - unmarried pregnant girl ... Bad. Unmarried boy “gettinglucky” .... Attaboy!
I don’t think it is as severe now as it was decades ago in Ireland ... But the double standard persists.
Ok.
You have, in this country, a reported 50% divorce rate, 1,500 abortions every day, just to start
How does that compare to rates of the same criteria to Ireland in the era?
I certainly have not collected - or compared any data.
But our current culture that says ... An unborn child is disposable, can be compared to the culture of shame & secrecy that existed in Ireland.
Although a child born at The Home had much better hope for survival than any unborn child at an abortion clinic.
I am saying that all the DNA testing that we have does nothing if we have a culture which allows the rampant disregard by both females, males extended families, friends, employers and neighbors to not care one bit about whether a child has a marriage within which to grow up
I don’t associate with people who take marital relations outside of marriage as normal and I have peace. My kids don’t have friends from broken homes and do t work for people who don’t care about family
When the Church discouraged parental abandonment had a purpose - to encourage a stable home for children and a more stable society
People now find that harsh... but they don’t consider that kids are growing up in an extremely harsh atmosphere without a loving marriage to care for them
What good is DNA testing to a kid?
Why is DNA testing helpful in providing a loving home?
Maybe I misunderstood your questioning.
DNA testing does not provide a loving home of course - but it makes it more difficult for a father to deny paternity.
Once paternity is established it would be nice to think a father would marry the mother - but clearly this isn’t the norm nowadays.
Child support - at the very least - should help the mother with basic needs to care for the child but is no substitute for a father.
People hate the Church. Many don’t. But of those who do, many hate the rules and regs. Whatever makes people think its preferable to hate the church for being discriminatory in discouraging out of wedlock sex, to the alternative, girls having marital relations and children with a guy who has to be chased by the law to give her money, seems destructive to me in so many ways
And as bad as it is to imagine burying babies in such an indignities manner, people really could take a moment away from focusing on their criticism of the church and go to their neighborhood planned parenthood clinic that their own tax money currently supports and find out what kind of lack of dignity those babies are getting , especially if tgey think the Church is so bad
All the DNA testing in the world doesn’t help that situation.
Maybe the moms could treat their potential babies with dignity and just wait till marriage, and to a good provider
I know- judgmental
....As conservatives, we are often accused by the left in this country of having personally set out to give diseases to American Indians, to enjoy slavery instead of tolerating it with restrictions against a backdrop of fierce opposition that almost destroyed any hope of a Constitution, and to have whipped every slave rather than care for them as we would a good horse, given that an adult male slave cost $2000 in 1845 money. We are daily characterized as haters of homosexuals and women, of wanting to create a theocracy -- and if we did establish a Christian theocracy, it would be utterly indistinguishable from the intents and practices of the Taliban.
Thanks for the confidence in Christendom.
Not sure whether your comment was straight up or sarcasm. To be clear, the comment about Taliban was something I attributed to the left’s imprression of Christians in America, and in fact that I have seen leveled against Christians here on FR.
Well - it isn’t “either” - “or”
And while I agree everyone should be encouraged to wed prior to having children - I have never seen where the Church officially teaches that unwed mothers should abandon their babies - it doesn’t.
I’ve never seen Church teaching that states babies with unwed parents should be warehoused away from the rest of society - it doesn’t.
Boys should be taught there are consequences too.
If they refuse to be responsible and be a real father - they SHOULD have to contribute financial support.
Is this ideal? No.
Is it preferable to stashing babies away in a “Home” ....yes, I think so.
Thanks for the clarification. I had thought the comment was your own view.
This thread isn't about abortion, directly or indirectly, so tagging that word to this thread is disingenious.
I didn't POST it to that category, that's why.
That doesn't mean the moderator doesn't have the sense to move it on his own.
I've asked the Moderator about it and haven't received a reply.
Boo hoo. He's probably got better things to do.
Is this "common sense" only reserved for some people and not all equally?
Apparently so.
This has always been my one and only screen name here.
I suspected you weren't her. She was actually clever.
BTW...I'm not Calvinist nor anti-Catholic.
Half of that statement is highly debatable.
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