Re:"Mal and Val - not Ann and the Old Man" Any evidence Valerie Sarruf is Obama's mom? (vanity)

Seizethecarp vanity commentary on Dr. Ron J. Polland youtube dated 08/07/11 ^ | August 1, 2012 | Seizethecarp (vanity)

[Seizethecarp]

"Meet The Parents....of alias Barack Obama. Black Sunni Muslim father and White Lebanese Christian mother. Born in the ME, raised in Indonesia, became BHO II in 1982." Dr. Ron J. Polland

The “Mal-Val” youtube video at the link was posted by FReeper Polarik (Dr. Ron Polland) in August of 2011 and while morphing the image of a woman named “Val” into an image of Obama, he insinuates that “Val” is Obama’s mom. One year later this youtube has only 1,150 views.

In July 2012, two FReepers associated the woman, “Val,” in Polarik’s Youtube with Lebanese actress Valerie Sarruf and have posted multiple images of her at various ages on FR eligibility threads. I am opening this thread to invite discussion of and links to any evidence that either supports or refutes a claim that Valerie Sarruf is Barack Obama’s mother, with or without Malcolm X being his father.

Where could Malcolm X and Valerie Sarruf have been in 1960 when baby Barry would have been conceived? Is there any evidence that Sarruf could have been pregnant and delivered a baby in 1961? In what country could the baby have been delivered? How and when could the alleged Mal-Val baby have been inserted into the identity and life narrative of the person we have come to know as Barack Hussein Obama?

Full disclosure: I refute categorically all of the Mal-Val narrative as wildly speculative and unsupported by any evidence that I have seen so far.

For several years now a shadowy coterie of FReepers styling themselves as “researchers” has gone onto nearly every FR eligibility thread to aggressively refute all evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham was Barack Obama’s mother. They have actually declared flat out that she was never in Hawaii before 1963, contrary to the voluminous evidence including INS FOIA documents!

Requests for links or any evidence that Stanley Ann is NOT the mom have been frequently met with abusive ad hominem attacks and accompanied by claims that ALL documentary evidence showing her to have been in Hawaii in 1960 and 1961 is forged, but no credible evidence of forgery has offered. I make this observation as a retired Certified Fraud Examiner and CPA.

For years the “researchers” had claimed mysteriously to have conclusive evidence that a different woman is Barry’s mom, but refused to reveal her name or any evidence other than her picture because the “researchers” claimed it would disappear from the net and/or from hard copy archives of the records. But this month, the “researchers” appear to have slipped up and revealed that Valerie Sarruf has been the woman whose identity they have been “protecting.” They have since attempted to walk back the revelation, but it is clear, IMO.

The “researchers” claim that they earnestly want to remove Obama from office. But wouldn’t revealing ALL EVIDENCE of a foreign mother and foreign birth (which they also claim) be the most logical approach to removing Obama rather than hiding the identity of this alternative mother for years while attacking FR threads that sincerely attempt to find out where Stanley Ann Dunham was when she gave birth to Barry?

In my opinion, the best evidence that Valerie Sarruf is NOT Barry’s mother is the mountain of evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham IS his mother, which the “researchers” have totally failed to refute.

Again, please use this thread for discussion of and links to any evidence that either supports or refutes a claim that Valerie Sarruf IS Barack Obama’s mother with or without Malcolm X being his father.

[Fred Nerks]

The state archives has several research tools including Polk directories – guides similar to phone books that listed the name and address of Seattle residents back to the 1870s. This one from 1961 helped researchers determine where President Barack Obama lived with his mother when she was in Seattle. In addition to the state archives branch at Bellevue Community College, some Polk directories are available at the Seattle Public Library, which also has some Seattle city directories searchable online.

Photo: Puget Sound Regional Branch Of The Washington State Archives

SOURCE

[Spunky]

So far I haven't found an online Polk directory for Seattle, but I would assume it would be like the one I found for San Francisco. It says Polk's San Francisco (San Francisco County, Calif.) City Directory 1961. Then when you open it, it says Introduction and General Index. Then in the paragraph under that it says; .....this the 1960's edition of the San Francisco City Directory.

So it appears that the directories are based on who is living there in the year previous (1960) for the 1961 directory. So it appears Anna Obama not a Stanley Ann was living in Seattle in 1960.

Polk San Francisco Directory

[Fred Nerks]

AND WHO AND HOW WAS IT ESTABLISHED THAT ANNA OBAMA WAS STANLEY ANN DUNHAM? HOW DID THE 'RESEARCHERS' CONCLUDE THE CHILD WHO WAS SEVEN MONTHS OLD WHEN MARY BABYSAT WAS ZERO?

[WildHighlander57]

Seizethecarp,

1960-1961 for Hawaii is plausible.

Its possible that since she knew she was going to transfer to school in Seattle, that either she or her relative in the seattle area got the apartment rental app in, and sent in the info for the entry in the directory ahead of time.

“1960-1961” or “1961-1962”sounds like the entry cutoff date was sometime a little ahead of midyear, maybe May or June.

[Fred Nerks]

...So it appears that the directories are based on who is living there in the year previous (1960) for the 1961 directory. So it appears Anna Obama not a Stanley Ann was living in Seattle in 1960.

Thank you. That is probably the most common sense, down to earth, comment I have ever seen in connection with the question about the Polk Directories.

So to be shown in the 1961 Polk for Seattle, regardless of when the book was distributed, the people listed there-in were living in Seattle in 1960.

Thus it follows that Anna Obama left the university of Hawaii late in 1960 shortly after she enrolled in the Fall, had her child either in Hawaii or on the mainland and was living in Seattle at a time when Mary's daughter, who was born in 1959, was 18 months old. IN JANUARY 1961.

And that child would have been seven months old when Anna commenced at the U of WA, NIGHT CLASSES OR NOT.

[little jeremiah]

Yes, makes sense.

[Seizethecarp]

The picture of the Seattle Polk entry in the “1961-1962” edition is here and is corroborated in Stanley Ann’s UW transcript.

http://www.wnd.com/2009/08/106258/

[Fred Nerks]

Let me say that again and make it clear:

Mary, in her own words, at first interview, said she baby-sat for Anna when her own daughter, who was born in July, 1959, was 18 months of age. She then tried to correct herself by saying the child was seven months of age in August. But as the American Thinker article notes, that still comes back to January 1961.

To jog her memory, Mary recounted the age of her own daughter: "[She] was 18 months old and was born in July of 1959 [this has been verified] and that would have placed the months of babysitting Barack in January and February of 1962." Those dates, however, don't add up. A child born in July 1959 would be 18 months old in January/February of 1961, several months before Ann reportedly moved to Seattle.

Perhaps to rectify this problem, Mary tried another way to remember the time she babysat. In a 2009 WND interview, Mary stated, "My daughter was 18 months old and she just had her 50th birthday this year ... so that would make the time around February and March 1962." Again, the math doesn't work. The year 2009 minus 50 gives us the correct birth year for Mary's child, but adding 18 months again brings us to January/February of 1961.

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[WildHighlander57]

OK many thanks.

How many “Obama”s are in the 1960-1961, and 1961-1962 Polk directories for Boston?

(No O’bamas...... ;) )

WH57

[Fred Nerks]

...According to the family, Obama's father travelled to America to study at the University of Hawaii in 1959. While there, he worked for an oil company and married his second wife, a white woman, named Anna Toot, and their union produced Barack Obama Jr...

ALLAFRICA LINK. By John Oywa, 15 August 2004

In fact, he worked for The Dole Corp pineapple cannery for one month, and apparently washed dishes in a cafe according to some locals, but the rest, from an article dated 2004 would seem to be correct. The kenyan wrote to his family in the village, the old man Onyango was the only one who could read, his letters were read out to the clan, and in an oral society, it follows the clan remembered.

So who was Anna Toot who became Anna Obama?

[Seizethecarp]

Mary stated, “My daughter was 18 months old and she just had her 50th birthday this year ... so that would make the time around February and March 1962.”

The 50-year-back memory of any person is far less reliable than the short-term memory which is ALSO regarded as unreliable in any forensic investigation by competent investigators. That is why contemporaneous documents rank far ahead in credibility as “best evidence”.

What the overwhelming cross-corroborated contemporaneous evidence proves beyond any doubt is that Mary Toutonghi’s memory was BAD. 50 years after the fact Mary’s baby was obviously 30 months old, not 18 months.

The U of W state controlled transcript database and micro-fiche confirm that Stanley Ann graduated from Mercer High in 1960, started at U of H for one semester that included a Russian class, started at U of W in the fall of 1961 and has as her address the same address where Mary herself claims that she babysat Barry, not some other baby (Roman Obama) by some other mother (Anna S. Obama, an unknown wife of BHO Sr. in January 1961).

In support of the Mal-Val narrative’s claim that Mary’s memory was correct (as to the 18 month age of her child, but of necessity wrong as to which mother and baby were there) we have ZERO documentation of the alternate wife or of the future Roman Obama even ever having been in the US, much less being in Washington State, Hawaii or the Philippines. ZIP! NADA! No maiden name, birth certificates for either one, no marriage or witnesses to any intimate relationship.

In support of Stanley Ann being the mom in Seattle we have the INS FOIA documents where she is named, her marriage, address, pregnancy, delivery and anticipated arrival in Seattle is all recorded.

As to the picture of Mark and David Obama taken in Kenya circa 1970, the boys appear to be properly about 3 years apart in age judging by the long bones and head to body proportions. Yes, David looks very muck LIKE but DIFFERENT from baby Barry, as two half brothers certainly could. If anything this resemblance is far closer than that of any of the Malcolm X progeny to my eye and lends support to BHO
Sr. being the dad of Barry and David, even though neither of them look like him.

There is no coherent narrative that can place an alleged son of Malcolm X (actually baby David) and Roman Obama of Ghana (actually Mark) in the same place at the same time a grand baby swap in 1963 when they would be only about a year apart instead of three years.

No explanation is given in the Mal-Val narrative as to how Roman Obama, who appears to be 100% African Black would have a NON-African Black mother as would be required of the mother whose baby Mary Toutonghi supposedly babysat for in January 1961 (NOT!).

[bluecat6]

‘Toot’ was his supposed Grandmothers nickname.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/politics/2008-08-23-2998373398_x.htm?csp=34

“Gramps is probably too busy telling one of his jokes or arguing with Toot (their version of the Hawaiian word “Tutu,” or grandparent) over how to cook the steaks to notice my mother reach out and squeeze the smooth, sinewy hand beside hers,” he writes. “Toot notices, but she’s polite enough to bite her lip and offer dessert; her instincts warn her against making a scene.”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2501812/posts?q=1&;page=51

From thread above:

http://www.wargs.com/political/obama.html

From link above:

233 Anna Maria Toot, b. Adams Co., Pa., ... [1786 or 1787], d. Delaware Co., Ohio, 23 Aug. 1841, bur. Radnor Cemetery, Radnor, Ohio

No conclusions - just more background. What the heck??? is the only thing that comes to mind this morning.

[Seizethecarp]

“So who was Anna Toot who became Anna Obama?”

That name, Anna Toot, is an obvious conflation of Ann aka Anna Dunham and her mother made in an error-packed hearsay newspaper article filled with knee-slappers based on 50-year-old recollections of an octogenarian. There is ZERO documentary or witness evidence to support a claim or even an inference that the “Anna Toot” referred to in this article was any person other than Stanley Ann Dunham Obama.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200408160533.html?page=4

The story revolves around Obama’s quest to find out more about his father, described by many as a brilliant economist who returned from the United States to take up a civil service job in Kenya. He was was later killed in a road accident in 1982, just when he was poised to take up a top job at the Central Bank.

According to the family, Obama’s father travelled to America to study at the University of Hawaii in 1959. While there, he worked for an oil company and married his second wife, a white woman, named Anna Toot, and their union produced Barack Obama Jr.

Obama’s book says Obama Snr left his family in Hawaii after winning a scholarship to study in Harvard when his son was two years old.

The marriage later broke up after Anna’s father opposed it, according to Mama Sarah.

“Anna’s father was furious about the marriage and threatened to have Obama Snr expelled from the university. Our son sent us letters, pleading that we intervene to save the marriage,” remembers Sarah.

[Fantasywriter]

Two more problems w the SADO-is-not-the-mother theory.

One: its proponents know, a priori, that any evidence that supports or appears to support the theory is true, while any & all evidence that contradicts the theory is false. I.e.: it is not the evidence that determines whether the theory is true or not, but the theory that determines the validity of the evidence. This is exactly backwards.

Two: it’s proponents have no action plan. Unlike, for instance, Arpaio & Zullo, who are pressing forward w the evidence they have gathered [& who, incidentally, accept, as do Corsi, Cashill, D’Souza, & every other conservative investigator who has examined the case, that SADO is the mother] & expect to produce indictments, the SADO-is-not-the-mother proponents have taken no concrete steps to ‘do good’ w their research. Their main plan appears to be attack fellow conservatives who don’t agree w them. This can only help Obama, as any time conservatives are attacking other conservatives, liberals benefit.

[Fred Nerks]

READ CAREFULLY...this is how they introduced the names ANN/ANNA/TOOT into the narrative:

“Well, this particular time they arrived in one piece, and they got out and stood at the railing to admire the view. And Barack, he was puffing away on this pipe that I’d given him for his birthday, pointing out all the sights with the stem, like a sea captain-” “Your father was really proud of this pipe,” my mother interrupts again. “He’d smoke it all night while he studied, and sometimes-”

“Look, Ann, do you want to tell the story or are you going to let me finish?” “Sorry, Dad. Go ahead.” “Anyway, this poor fella-he was another African student, wasn’t he? Fresh off the boat. This poor kid must’ve been impressed with the way Barack was holding forth with this pipe, ’cause he asked if he could give it a try. Your dad thought about it for a minute, and finally agreed, and as soon as the fella took his first puff, he started coughing up a fit. Coughed so hard that the pipe slipped out of his hand and dropped over the railing, a hundred feet down the face of the cliff.” Gramps stops to take another nip from his flask before continuing. “Well, now, your dad was gracious enough to wait until his friend stopped coughing before he told him to climb over the railing and bring the pipe back. The man took one peek down this ninety-degree incline and told Barack that he’d buy him a replacement-” “Quite sensibly,” Toot says from the kitchen. (We call my grandmother Tutu, Toot for short; it means “grandparent” in Hawaiian, for she decided on the day I was born that she was still too young to be called Granny.) Gramps scowls but decides to ignore her.

“-but Barack was adamant about getting his pipe back, because it was a gift and couldn’t be replaced. So the fella took another look, and shook his head again, and that’s when your dad picked him clear off the ground and started dangling him over the railing!” Gramps lets out a hoot and gives his knee a jovial slap. As he laughs, I imagine myself looking up at my father, dark against the brilliant sun, the transgressor’s arms flailing about as he’s held aloft. A fearsome vision of justice. “He wasn’t really holding him over the railing, Dad,” my mother says, looking to me with concern, but Gramps takes another sip of whiskey and plows forward. “At this point, other people were starting to stare, and your mother was begging Barack to stop. I guess Barack’s friend was just holding his breath and saying his prayers. Anyway, after a couple of minutes, your dad set the man back down on his feet, patted him on the back, and suggested, calm as you please, that they all go find themselves a beer. And don’t you know, that’s how your dad acted for the rest of the tour-like nothing happened. Of course, your mother was still pretty upset when they got home. In fact, she was barely talking to your dad. Barack wasn’t helping matters any, either, ’cause when your mother tried to tell us what had happened he just shook his head and started to laugh.

‘Relax, Anna,’ he said to her-your dad had this deep baritone, see, and this British accent.” My grandfather tucks his chin into his neck at this point, to capture the full effect. “ ‘Relax, Anna,’ he said. ‘I only wanted to teach the chap a lesson about the proper care of other people’s property!’ ”

------------

Killed three birds with one stone. That covered for the listing of ANN OBAMA at the birth announcement address, and covered for ANNA OBAMA. But there's more: it also covered for the story the family in Kenya told - that the kenyan had gone to the US, and married a woman named ANNA TOOT.

But, you want to know the cutest trick of all? Ayres isn't half as clever as he thinks he is.

He's got Madelyn being called 'Toot' for grandmother BEFORE SHE COULD HAVE BEEN A GRANDMOTHER.

[Fred Nerks]

And now it’s cheerio from me, I’ve had enough BS from the resident obstructionists to last me at least for the remainder of the week.

[Seizethecarp]

“As an uncle of Malik, this Yusuf is of the same generation as Barak/Berwick - although they had different mothers. The teacher at Maseno clearly states that JOSEPH was the elder of the two.”

Yet again the clearly erroneous 50-year-old memory (in this case that of a teacher at Maseno) that has been hearsay-reported by a newspaper reporter is being used to make a claim (in this case of an elder brother to BHO Sr.) that is refuted by ALL verifiable documents and witnesses.

BHO Sr. had NO recorded or reported full-blood brother. His first half-brother, Omar, the eldest son of Mama Sarah and ELDER brother of Yusuf was born in 1944 and Yusuf was born c. 1950 by all accounts and he WAS the half-uncle of Malik and the senior clan male elder in the village.

[9YearLurker]

Any passport would have sufficed.

[Fred Nerks]

[Seizethecarp]

Per Fred Nerks:

“He’s got Madelyn being called ‘Toot’ for grandmother BEFORE SHE COULD HAVE BEEN A GRANDMOTHER.”

From “Dreams”:

“’Quite sensibly,’ Toot says from the kitchen. (We call my grandmother Tutu, Toot for short; it means “grandparent” in Hawaiian, for she decided on the day I was born that she was still too young to be called Granny.) Gramps scowls but decides to ignore her.”

All:

Obviously Ayers has Barry recounting this story of his mother, grandfather and grandmother all supposedly recounting a memory of the happy little family’s life together in Hawaii.

Barry say in the present tense “We call my grandmother Tutu...,” a name she took “on the day I was born” NOT BEFORE he was born as Fred Nerks claims. There is nothing out of place, not that Dreams can be relied on for anything.

What I see worked into the Dreams narrative is the implication that Barry was born IN Hawaii as on that very day Madelyn took the name Tutu with no delay for notification from a remote location, for example Kenya.