[Idabilly]

One oddity about these threads and discussing Lincoln (and his war in general,) is the total and complete disregard for historical facts. Like so much in these modern times of political correctness, facts have also has fallen to the shouted lie and the emotional response. Fact is, they knew Secession was lawful, and Lincoln (like any Two Bit lawyer,) twisted and tortured definitions until the only thing left was confusion. Here is what took place: Lincoln had readers block when it came to several words (enumerate, delegate, agent, and State) He did not, however, have such a block with words more to his liking (ultimate, force, torch, usurp, and persons like Joshua Speed.) Here is a vote from Mar. 2, 1861

“Under this Constitution, as originally adopted and as it now exists, no State has power to withdraw from the jurisdiction of the United States; and this Constitution, and all laws passed in pursuance of its delegated powers, are the supreme law of the land, anything contained in any constitution, ordinance, or act of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.”

28 nays to 18 yeas

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsj&fileName=052/llsj052.db&recNum=378&itemLink=D?hlaw:3:./temp/~ammem_iHF8::%230520379&linkText=1

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

Very Interesting

[Drennan Whyte]

Fact is, they knew Secession was lawful...

That is not fact merely because you say it is. Lincoln, Jackson, Buchanan, Clay, Webster, and Robert E. Lee himself are just a few of the men who all knew that secession was illegal.

28 nays to 18 yeas

So it appears that 61% knew their Constitution well enough to know that such an act was unnecessary.

[RobbyS]

Whether a state had the right to secede was a matter of opinion, neither fact nor law. Lincoln, of course, supposed that a disloyal faction had seized control in the states. The Southerners were exercised the same rights against the United States that the Colonists had against the king of Great Britain. Your authority would be the pre-amble to the Declaration of Liberty. The right to revolution. The same right that the English people had invoked against the Stuarts.

[RebelTex]

Thanks for the ping.

Bookmarked for later reading.

[cowboyway]

is the total and complete disregard for historical facts.

Beginning with the term 'civil war'. If we're going to 'unspin' it we need to call it what it was:

War of Northern Aggression
War for Southern Independence, or
War Between the States