[edge919]

Well... in a court, or presented to the State Department for a passport, or stuff like that. Any and all official uses.

So what document did Obama show to the state department for a passport?? It wasn't the June 2007 COLB.

Actually, the raised seal was also visible on the original scanned image too. Not quite as clearly as when the certificate was held in better light by the FactCheck reporters, but it was definitely there.

Not on the scan posted by Obama at FTS. It was on a larger scan, consistent with what might happen when you scan a copy of a copy. The seal is so faint that it's not strong evidence that it was actually contained on a birth document as alleged. The flunkcheck.org photos have their own set of problems which again makes any claim of authenticity extremely suspicious.

Here's an even earlier Hawaii COLB that shows the father's race as "American." That's not a race. It's a continental designation. Just like African.

The problem with your example was that the race was declared in 1907 well before we had standardized race categories, such as were in place in 1961, when Obama was allegedly born. I still agree that Barak Sr. might have identified himself as African, but your example doesn't invalidate that Barak's race should have been listed differently.

[EnderWiggins]

"So what document did Obama show to the state department for a passport?? It wasn't the June 2007 COLB."

Don't know, don't care. Since he got his first one as a small child, I suspect his mom provided them a copy of the long form. But whatever he showed them was good enough to get the passport.

"Not on the scan posted by Obama at FTS. It was on a larger scan, consistent with what might happen when you scan a copy of a copy. The seal is so faint that it's not strong evidence that it was actually contained on a birth document as alleged. The flunkcheck.org photos have their own set of problems which again makes any claim of authenticity extremely suspicious."

So... you admit here that the seal was visible after all? So there you go... one Birther lie debunked by you.

Thanks for confirming.

I hope you remember that Polarik actually had to use a pencil to highlight the seal on his comparison certificate because it also was too faint to obviously see when it was scanned. Hmmmm... might that have something to with seals being hard to see when scanned on a flatbed scanner? Maybe?

"The problem with your example was that the race was declared in 1907 well before we had standardized race categories, such as were in place in 1961, when Obama was allegedly born. I still agree that Barak Sr. might have identified himself as African, but your example doesn't invalidate that Barak's race should have been listed differently."

The problem with your explanation is that the "standardized race categories" of which you speak have nothing to do with birth certificates. They have to do with reporting demographic information to the feds. They placed no requirement whatsoever on States to use those reporting standards on their birth certificates.

Hawaii has already explained that they allow parents to self report their own race. And in 1961, Obama Senior actually was an African.