You are putting way too much energy into a collateral issue. Here’s another problem. The birthers, as a mass, have put out so much anger and bad info, that they have ZERO credibility out there. Who is going to care what a birther thinks when the perception of birthers is, “these guys are clueless”
You seem like a nice person. Look back over this huge thread from the beginning and see how birthers have responded to legitimate questions from the non-birthers. I have been asking a couple of baby-birthers to list out their allegations or proof in a logical manner. I have given them examples. They go all around the block making excuses.
OK. They’re obviously kids. Can’t blame them for playing. But where are the grown up birthers. You would think a few of the grown ups would step up. Nada.
Fred nerks, el gato, yourself, danae, -—you guys have been pretty decent. We don’t agree but it stays civil. Other people—take the Wong Kim Ark case. Birthers dismiss it. Its a Supreme Court case, and probably the most relevant law on this matter. Most birthers just dismiss it. Ah, them guys didn’t know what they were doing.
If this thing ever gets to a court, do you think that court is going to just hop and skip over Wong? They ain’t. I gave an example. An easy case out of Indiana. Written in pretty plain english. What was the reaction? Oh, thats just crap.
So step back and take a look at the issue. And this is for all birthers. You want to overturn an election. But you can’t answer questions in a logical manner. You want the courts or somebody to do something. But yet, you guys don’t do something as easy as bone up on a couple of cases that you kind of need to know.
Somebody don’t agree with you-you call them names. You see some evidence you don’t like, you just breeze right past it. Other freepers try to tell you relevant things—you guys dismiss it, call them names, ignore the reality. Somebody takes the time to point out problems with your position-—you cut and paste pictures and act rude. And this ain’t even talking about all the hysterics, the martyrdom, the constitutional posing, and hand wringing.
And then, to make it worse, every so often here comes some new birther, who starts posting all the old birther stuff thats been half beat to death, and the same old myths come right back out again. Its so bad most non-birthers just entirely avoid the birther threads because of all the meanness and nonsense. And plus, they get tired of beating their heads against a brick wall.
So maybe if you, butterz, want to do something, maybe job one is to whip the birther troops into shape. Get your facts straight. Confirm your own allegations before non-birthers do it for you. If you can, you might be able to turn this into a movement, instead of a mob.
parsy
You put way too much energy into demonizing people with pointless labels, such as 'birther' and ignoring direct challenges to your canards and assumptions, such as the Wong Kim Ark decision. I pointed out earlier that this decision says very specifically that the child was considered a citizen at birth because the parents were permanent U.S. immigrants. The permanent domicile was how Judge Gray applied the jurisdiction clause of the 14th amendment. Obama's father was not an immigrant and certainly not a permanent immigrant. Since the founders considered citizenship by descent was via the fathers only, there's considerable Gray area (pun intended) as to whether Obama was a U.S. citizen much less a natural born citizen.