Posted on 02/23/2010 8:02:16 AM PST by butterdezillion
rude
Baloney. If d was the answer, you wouldn’t be omnipresent with your troll sidekicks on every other birther thread.
You have a keen interest in this, far far beyond the casualness d suggests.
There are many facets of the so called birther story that I don’t pay any attention to at all. The entire donofrio argument I don’t agree with, though if they manage to win that argument, fantastic. It doesn’t interest me one way or another.
There are a few things I do know for an absolute fact.
1) The COLB posted online is a fraud.
2) FactCheck is a leftwing activist group and the limp-wristed punk they chose to “verify” the COLB is a leftwing activist.
3) Dr. Fukino did NOT verify he was an NBC in her two bizarre statements.
4) Dr. Fukino did NOT verify that the info on the COLB was legit.
5) Obama is a f*cking liar, who has lied about every part of his life.
That’s plenty for me to act as “commissar” and let others go down whatever research/theory alleys they wish, even if many are rabbit holes.
parsy who doesn’t know women at all. Trust me sunshine, a teen in 1961, pregnant with some black dude’s kid, probably would not want to be around her white parents.
“Has anyone told you today that you are BRILLIANT!?”
I have a metabolic/neurological medical condition (CFS) which causes my IQ to go up and down by 30 points several times a day (punctuated by compulsion to nap), so I must have been on an up cycle!
About to crash out again...
I have a lot of time on my hands for a while, so I go where I am needed. If I shut off a few rabbit holes, that should be a good thing.
parsy, of Watership Down
I have no clue if the Smith document is real or not. I tend to think it’s not but stranger things have happened. What struck me was how the DUmmies and others like them flipped out. Then one of them posted it online and claimed they did it, but it didn’t match up with the one Smith posted.
They did no such thing. They came to the conclusion that he was a citizen at birth. Here is the question, followed by the conclusion: First the question:
The question presented by the record is whether a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States by virtue of the first clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution,
And the conclusion:
The evident intention, and the necessary effect, of the submission of this case to the decision of the court upon the facts agreed by the parties were to present for determination the single question stated at the beginning of this opinion, namely, whether a child born in the United States, of parent of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States. For the reasons above stated, this court is of opinion that the question must be answered in the affirmative.
Order affirmed.
You'll not see "Natural Born Citizen" in either of those. Everything in between is dicta.
"Natural-born" or "natural born" only appear in conjunction with "subject", except in quotes or references to "Minor v. Happersett" which repeats the Vattel defintion of Natural Born citizen, and in the quote, or discussion of it, from Binny, which distingues between "citizen child of an alien born in the country" and "natural born citizen".
I like it too, but if that is the case, where is it and what are they waiting for? Is that what Rahm was doing in Africa in December of 2008? Pay off?
WRONG again parsley. The good stuff will NEVER be posted her on the open forum and it is in the hands of competent people that know what to do with it and when to use it.
Excellent post.
That’s my point - you are the one saying you think he was born in Hawaii - and I said SO WHAT if he was - that doesn’t make him a natural born citizen!!
Unless challenged. You do understand the meaning, both literal and legal, of prima-faciedo you not?
Latin for "at first view."
Evidence that is sufficient to raise a presumption of fact or to establish the fact in question unless rebutted.
But if the prima-facie evidence is never presented in court, it's kinda hard to rebut it. Made even more difficult by the concealment of the underlying documentation.
If his trip to Africa was an attempt to find out where the document came from, he would have been wasting his time IMO. Obama probably has many more enemies than freinds in Kenya. Over a thousand deaths and at least 250,000 people displaced isn't going to be forgotten by the victims and their families.
I think that was posted or an excerpt on FR, ‘cause I remember it.
So 0devil was planning in 2004 to destroy our country.
If this WND account is true, it is most suspicious that such an event would coincide with efforts to push BHO forward as a presidential candidate.
I do have to wonder why such a big grab of files would be done and not just the targeted BHO file if that was what they were after. This alone causes me to question the WND account.
Note that the files were returned, so they may have just been copied for safe-keeping and then the originals put under guard at the hospital. WND says officials said files were missing or altered, but don't say which ones.
BTW, if you are regarding the Smith CPGH BC in a more favorable light, wouldn't that require SADO to have been in HI to hook up with BHO Sr before going to Kenya after the Feb 1961 HI marriage documented in the HI index and divorce filing? Just wondering.
Actually that is no what he wrote.
At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children, born in a country of [p680] parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further, and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction, without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class, there have been doubts, but never as to the first.
He stated that persons born within the country of citizen parents were citizens, and then went on to say that they were natural born. What he questions is the very citizenship of those born in the US of foreign parents, but admits that some include them as "citizens", but never mentions "natural born citizens" in conjunction with the second group.
There’s dicta, and there’s dicta. Some dicta is more relevant than others. Frankly, dicta is usually on issues NOT before the Court.
If a court relies on language from a treatise, the “treatise itself” doesn’t magically become law. BUT SINCE THE COURT RELIED ON THE LANGUAGE that line of reasoning is now relevant. It is likely to be repeated in subsequent affirming decisions.
Now here is where things get a little more complex. Some of the stuff the Wong Court relied on were PRIOR ENGLISH CASES. Technically, there is no FEDERAL COMMON LAW, but most states had “reception statutes” which brought English ccommon law into their own state law.
Soooo, you could have a citizenship case on the state level that is based on English common law, and if that particular case is relied on in a Federal case, its gets a little blurry. We ain’t necessarily bound at the federal level, but could be at the state level. But at the federal level, you still have the fact that the court “looked with favor” upon the reasoning.
So, in a transmogratory sort of way, while the English case at the federal level isn’t binding, its language kinda is. Its been sorta naturalized in a way.
Read the Indiana case —pages 13-18:
http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/11120903.ebb.pdf
See that old English stuff in there! See how its being cited back to both Wong and England.......
parsy, who says there is a lot in Wong, the Birthers and Vattel Groupies are missing
Good. I am glad for you. I think it is a brilliant decision to save this stuff for future use. Its not like y’all have needed it or anything, as well as you have been doing in court.
parsy, who is happy for you!
| I’ll gladly abide by your request, but this isn’t MY Ping list — it’s the After-Birther Ping List. FReepmail the guy who shared it with me if you don’t want to be pinged anymore. Further, there’s no need for a “refinement” in any theory. THIS has never appeared in court to be established as a "fact":
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