[Right Wing Professor]

I advise you not to use the Trevor-Roper version of Table Talk. It turns out it was translated, not from Bormann's edited version of the Hitler transcripts, but from an intervening French 'translation' prepared by Swiss Nazi Francois Genoud. Many of the anti-Christian remarks in Table Talk were actually inserted by Genoud.

Richard Carrier originally tracked this down, and his discoveries have been published in a peer-reviewed journal. I have copies of the Picker and Bormann versions of Table-Talk, both in the original German, and have verified Mr Carrier's discoveries. Hitler, while he had some novel ideas on how the Church could be 'improved', was not notably anti-Christian; in fact, I can quote you a dozen authentic examples from the original source where he spoke favorable of Christianity, and particularly Catholicism. Mr. Carrier has told me in a private communication that Enigma will shortly be publishing a direct English translation of the Bormann Vermerke in which the problems with the Trevor-Roper version will be highlighted.

I am of the opinion that US propaganda after the war was pitched to make Hitler seem more anti-Christian than he actually was, in order to bolster Adenauer's Christian Democrats. But in the present example, Genoud evidently inserted the anti-Christian remarks on his own. He was fond of 'improving' on his mentor's thoughts.

[Right Wing Professor]

Ping!

[curiosity]

Okay, but Table Talk isn't the only source that indicates Hitler was rather hostile to Christianity in private.

There's the statement recorded by Albert Speer I posted earlier, and it's consistent with what other Hitler confidants like Goebbels and Bormann recall about his private views (I only have the Speer book in front of me).

[grey_whiskers]

I advise you not to use the Trevor-Roper version of Table Talk.

Hugh Trevor-Roper? That would be SERIES! ;-)

Cheers!

[grey_whiskers]

Richard Carrier originally tracked this down,

Oh, the Freedom from Religion Foundation.

No doubt they are as objective as AIG. ;-)

(I will try to read up on the site later, I've bookmarked it...)

in fact, I can quote you a dozen authentic examples from the original source where he spoke favorable of Christianity, and particularly Catholicism.

Bill Clinton (not to mention Jimmuh Carter) have already provided ample evidence for us Freepers that a politician mouthing belief in Christianity is no guarantee of his bona fides.

By the way...

It is somewhat odd that some atheists seem anxious to claim Hitler as a Christian, but quickly exclude others (such as televangelists) from being Christian, on the grounds of far more menial (sexual) sins.

At first blush, that is. If it were nearly anyone else on this thread, I would have flamed them for this, but I have come to know you over a number of threads-- you take great efforts to maintain logical consistency and clarity of thought, for which you should be commended. Could you please fill in the philosophical "missing link" for the above circumstance? (Private Freepmail is good, too, if you find the subject too tiresome. I am NOT trying to bait you.)

Full Disclosure: I remember seeing an atheist at an invited talk at the University of Minnesota, and he proudly claimed that atheists walked along side the Rev. Martin Luther King...as though King's Christian faith was irrelevant to his committment to civil rights, and only the atheists deserved credit. Maybe the fact that it was oh-so-liberal Minnesota kept the speaker from publically criticizing a Black man. ;-)

Cheers!