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To: Diamond
"You are claiming absolute certainty of the truth of the proposition that there is not enough knowledge to be able to determine whether or not there is a God."

I am saying we cannot do so at the present time.

"In order to make this claim with certainty you would have had to search throughout the entire universe, because of the possibility that knowledge of God might exist somewhere you haven't looked yet."

No. This does not follow. I am talking about the limitations of human knowledge, right now. On Earth. In the future the question may be answerable. That day is not this day.

"Therefore, unless you are omniscient (or God Himself) you cannot be certain that that there isn't knowledge somewhere that you haven't looked yet."

Irrelevant, I am talking about human limitations at the present time.

"Therefore you cannot be certain that there is no way to know if God exists."

I can be sure that humans do not right now possess the ability to test for the existence of a deity. Do you know of any way to do so, scientifically?
619 posted on 12/20/2005 11:36:46 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
I can be sure that humans do not right now possess the ability to test for the existence of a deity.

Wow. I can actually correspond with someone who knows the extent of human ability in all places at the present moment. That said, how difficult is it for humans to test for the presence of organized matter that behaves according to predictable laws? How unreasonable is it for humans to deduce from the presence of organized matter and predictable laws that intelligence and design might somehow be involved with them?

667 posted on 12/20/2005 11:53:56 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
In order to make this claim with certainty you would have had to search throughout the entire universe, because of the possibility that knowledge of God might exist somewhere you haven't looked yet.
No. This does not follow. I am talking about the limitations of human knowledge, right now. On Earth. In the future the question may be answerable. That day is not this day.

Yes, I think it does follow, and as a necessary consequent of the limitation of human knowledge, which you acknowledge. The problem is that you still assert, "that day is not this day". There is no way that you as an individual are privy to even a small fraction of all human knowledge, so you cannot be certain that there are not other individuals who have knowledge of God. To claim as certain that humanity does not posses this knowledge, or presently have the means of obtaining such information is a claim of omniscience, which is an attribute normally attributed to God, which in this case would be self-refuting, not to mention arrogant. The certainty of lack of evidence is beyond the scope of your limited knowledge at present. How do you know that knowledge of God exists somewhere in the world where you haven't looked yet?

I can be sure that humans do not right now possess the ability to test for the existence of a deity. Do you know of any way to do so, scientifically?

Are you assuming that the only way to knowledge is by science and that science is the only valid knowledge?

Cordially,

708 posted on 12/20/2005 12:17:32 PM PST by Diamond (Qui liberatio scelestus trucido inculpatus.)
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