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To: donh

Better yet- WHY don't we present both theories for what they TRULY are- man vs God or materialism vs theism. Why not show students what is REALLY at stake here? I say we show what comes from a "me first" mindset.
I have held a suspicion that some of those in here presenting themselves as "libertarians" aren't truly that at all. At worst some of you are nothing more than "stealth" lefties looking to start trouble and, at BEST, the very sort of libertarian- boozy, beer-soaked frat boy, short sighted and hedonistic thinkers who can't imagine an issue beyond your pleasure, your money, your convenience, your porn and your dope issues- who will make it an absolute impossibility to EVER see a true libertarian in DC.
YES- BOTH theories. Try to imagine an education system- supported only at the local level- where students are taught both theories and where both are actually discussed in a dispassionate and intelligent way. Imagine a generation of critical thinkers who learn a little SOMETHING, enough to make their own decision on which to believe.
It is not incumbent upon the REST of us to accept what the leftists- or YOU- tell us we MUST believe.


2,802 posted on 12/28/2005 2:44:09 AM PST by 13Sisters76
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To: 13Sisters76
"WHY don't we present both theories for what they TRULY are- man vs God or materialism vs theism."

Because that would be lying?

"I say we show what comes from a "me first" mindset."

Capitalism?

"I have held a suspicion that some of those in here presenting themselves as "libertarians" aren't truly that at all."

Just as many presenting themselves as *conservative* are really collectivists.

"At worst some of you are nothing more than "stealth" lefties looking to start trouble and, at BEST, the very sort of libertarian- boozy, beer-soaked frat boy, short sighted and hedonistic thinkers who can't imagine an issue beyond your pleasure, your money, your convenience, your porn and your dope issues- who will make it an absolute impossibility to EVER see a true libertarian in DC."

You have issues. lol

"YES- BOTH theories."

ID/Creationism isn't a scientific theory. Never has been.

"Try to imagine an education system- supported only at the local level- where students are taught both theories and where both are actually discussed in a dispassionate and intelligent way."

Creationism can't be discussed intelligently, because it isn't an intelligent claim.

"Imagine a generation of critical thinkers who learn a little SOMETHING, enough to make their own decision on which to believe. "

Imagine a bunch of kids who are exposed to everything and never told what is right or wrong. Imagine a country where WHOLE SCIENCE is the norm. Imagine some other country producing the world's scientists, because that is what's going to happen. WHOLE Language and WHOLE Math is bad enough; we don't need Whole Science.

"It is not incumbent upon the REST of us to accept what the leftists- or YOU- tell us we MUST believe."

Believe what you wish; it's still a lie to teach children creationism/ID.
2,803 posted on 12/28/2005 5:28:56 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman (Merry Christmas!!!!)
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To: 13Sisters76
Better yet- WHY don't we present both theories for what they TRULY are- man vs God or materialism vs theism.

No such dichotomy exists. Science is not philosophical materialism, and has nothing to say, positive or negative about theism, except for that of a particular brand of scientific cranks called scientific creationists.

Why not show students what is REALLY at stake here? I say we show what comes from a "me first" mindset.

Human evolution has not produced a "me first" mindset. Humans, like most large, slow-breeding social predators exhibit a remarkable amount of co-operative and altruistic instinct compared to most of the rest of the animal kingdom, for pretty obvious reasons of genetic survival.

I have held a suspicion that some of those in here presenting themselves as "libertarians" aren't truly that at all.

What is this? What has libertianism to do with evolutionary theory?

At worst some of you are nothing more than "stealth" lefties looking to start trouble and, at BEST, the very sort of libertarian- boozy, beer-soaked frat boy, short sighted and hedonistic thinkers who can't imagine an issue beyond your pleasure, your money, your convenience, your porn and your dope issues- who will make it an absolute impossibility to EVER see a true libertarian in DC.

Good grief. This has nothing whatever to do with evolutionary theory. Haven't you been told about the dangers of drinking and typing at the same time?

YES- BOTH theories.

Whatever laymen might think, there are not two scientific theories evolution. ID does not qualify even if you pout for a week about libertarians.

Try to imagine an education system- supported only at the local level- where students are taught both theories and where both are actually discussed in a dispassionate and intelligent way. Imagine a generation of critical thinkers who learn a little SOMETHING, enough to make their own decision on which to believe.

Try to imagine an educational system--supported only at the local level--where students are taught both theories of grammar and spelling. That of an english major hired out of graduate school, and that of an illiterate street rapper.

It is not incumbent upon the REST of us to accept what the leftists- or YOU- tell us we MUST believe.

It is not incumbent upon writers of accredited science textbooks to give a tinkers poop what non-scientists think should go in science textbooks, just as it is not incumbent upon writers of music theory books to consult the deaf about music theory.

2,807 posted on 12/28/2005 6:37:22 AM PST by donh
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To: 13Sisters76
The problem with Creationism vs. evolution is that the Creationist side, while basing their entire system of belief on "faith" ie: accepting something that you have never seen, demand proof that would shake their faith on the unknown in order to accept what the other side believes.

Turned on its head, the creationist argument of "what has evolved these past few centuries?", could be turned into "what has God created these past few thousands of years?"

2,819 posted on 12/28/2005 11:45:58 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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