Intelligent Design case decided - Dover, Pennsylvania, School Board loses [Fox News Alert]

Fox News | 12/20/05

[snarks_when_bored]

Fox News alert a few minutes ago says the Dover School Board lost their bid to have Intelligent Design introduced into high school biology classes. The federal judge ruled that their case was based on the premise that Darwin's Theory of Evolution was incompatible with religion, and that this premise is false.

[Coyoteman]

For ANY "scientific fact" to BECOME a scientific fact there MUST, at SOME point, be a fact to support it. 150 years for evolution and not a single one.

You seem to have a confused notion of what is a fact in science.

A fact in science is essentially a datapoint which appears reliable; that is, an observation which is confirmed repeatedly by independent and competent observers.

The following fossil is a "fact" which supports the theory of evolution, showing that your comment "150 years for evolution and not a single one" is incorrect.

---

Fossil: KNM-ER 3733 Site: Koobi Fora (Upper KBS tuff, area 104), Lake Turkana, Kenya (4, 1)

Discovered By: B. Ngeneo, 1975 (1)

Estimated Age of Fossil: 1.75 mya * determined by Stratigraphic, faunal, paleomagnetic & radiometric data (1, 4)

Species Name: Homo ergaster (1, 7, 8), Homo erectus (3, 4, 7), Homo erectus ergaster (25)

Gender: Female (species presumed to be sexually dimorphic) (1, 8)

Cranial Capacity: 850 cc (1, 3, 4)

Information: Tools found in same layer (8, 9). Found with KNM-ER 406- A. boisei (effectively eliminating single species hypothesis) (1)

Interpretation: Adult (based on cranial sutures, molar eruption and dental wear) (1)

See original source for notes:
Source: http://www.mos.org/evolution/fossils/fossilview.php?fid=33

[donh]

Actually, you're comparing apples and oranges. Microbiological creatures are not a matter of opinion. They are testable, verifiable, falsifiable, etc.

Evolution on the other hand is not.....it is opinion. Imo, probably best for a philosophy class.

Uh huh. I presume you feel the same way about sub-nuclear physics, plate tektonics, and galactic astronomy. When was the last time you experienced continental drift, or stellar nuclear fusion, first-hand?

[<1/1,000,000th%]

So they could take chemistry and physics. Sounds good to me. There are already too many biologists.

(Heeheehee...uh oh!)

There are about 500 biologists in the building here with another 5000 or so on site. I'm in the basement with the electron microscopists and am the only physicist on the site that I am aware of. So it's a running gag...I have no animosity towards biologists...Most of them are good Christians...They won't leave my office...Ahhh!

[13Sisters76]

For YOUR case of deliberate ignorance I suggest Johnson's "Darwin on Trial", Behr's "Darwin's Black Box" or if books frighten you, any number of websites will serve and quite a few of them dedicated to science- NOT religion.
"A plethora of facts" you say? Produce ONE- just ONE that DOESN't demand we accept adaptation- such as that practiced by dog breeders and cattle ranchers- as your "proof". You cannot.
A bit of honesty on the part of you folks would be refreshing, don't you think?

[Dimensio]

I suggest Johnson's "Darwin on Trial",

Philip E. Johnson is a trial lawyer with absolutely no expertise or experience in the field of biology and his work shows this. His book is a collection of ignorance amassed against evolution rather than actual logical arguments against the theory.

Behr's "Darwin's Black Box"

You are aware that Behe accepts evolution and common descent, right? I mean, if you'd actually studied Behe's works you would know this.

"A plethora of facts" you say? Produce ONE- just ONE that DOESN't demand we accept adaptation- such as that practiced by dog breeders and cattle ranchers- as your "proof". You cannot.

The "facts" that I reference are what lead to the conclusion of evolution. There's the "FACT" of a broken Vitamin C identical in multiple species of primates, suggesting that the gene became "broken" in a common ancestor that split off into the various primate species that carry the gene (including homo sapiens); for contrast, guinea pigs also have a broken vitamin C synthesis gene that is completely different than the one found in primates. There's the "FACT" of the extensive fossil record. Despite what creationists will dishonestly state, the fossil record leads to the CONCLUSION of descent with modification (because of the variance in fossil types found at varying layers, the abscence of any existing life forms matching those found in the fossil record and the abscence of any fossilized remains of species of existing life forms). Are you looking for anything specific, or are you just here to trash evolution in general without regard to the information used to support it?

[13Sisters76]

There is not one single fact to support evolution- not one. Darwin hoped it would be found in the fossil record- it was not. Evolutionists since have hoped for some OTHER miracle- there have been none.
The history of the "science" of evolution is fraught with lies, scams and deceit and you want those of us who don't accept fairytales to believe that is must be true because it HAS to be true? You ask way too much.
I do NOT understand what frightens you people so- presenting BOTH THEORIES for what they are and allowing students to develop some critical thinking skills should be a GOOD thing.
The 13 Sisters is a historical reference to the original thirteen colonies. Apparently you don't know much history either. The public schools are a shame.

[P-Marlowe]

Biology isn't required for high school graduation.

Read this high school graduation requirement for science carefully:

Two years, including biological and physical sciences.

English is also required, so why don't you diagram that statement for the class.

[balrog666]

Trollin', trollin', trollin' on the river ...

[donh]

I had no trouble graduating from a california high school without a biology course, and so did one of my nieces, just recently. This was apparently not a barrier to admissions at Berkeley, either. I had an organic chem major in my dorm that also didn't take biology in high school. My guess is that most high school authorities consider this chart a guideline, not a mandate from heaven.

[Diamond]

you argue with a guitar man? a guitar man?? a guitar man???

What else would you expect from a bass player?

Cordially,

[Diamond]

I am not an atheist.

Well then, what are we arguing about?

Cordially,

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Well then, what are we arguing about?"

No idea.

Merry Christmas!

[<1/1,000,000th%]

I'm sorry. I was looking only at graduation requirements.

From your post,

"Two years, including biological and physical sciences."

This means if there are chemistry and physics electives, biology can be avoided.

I've already been through class scheduling with my two high school kids here in the People's Democratic Republic of Illinois. It's not rocket science.

[Diamond]

And Merry Christmas to you, too!:)

Cordially,

[P-Marlowe]

I had no trouble graduating from a california high school without a biology course, and so did one of my nieces, just recently.

Someone needs to revoke your diplomas:

Science Graduation Requirement

Science requirements for high school graduation.

		California Education Code Section 51225.3 (a)(1)(C) specifies, in order to receive a high school diploma, a student must successfully complete at least two courses in science, including biological and physical sciences. A course is one year long or two semesters. While the law is not explicit, one course generally focuses on the biological sciences and the other course focuses on physical sciences. Physical sciences may include physics, chemistry, or earth science. Two years of integrated science would also fulfill this graduation requirement, as long as biological and physical sciences are included. In 1998, the State Board of Education adopted science curriculum standards. See Science for additional information. California Education Code can be found in the California Law library.

Questions: Phil LaFontaine| plafonta@cde.ca.gov | 916-323-6189 

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California Department of Education 1430 N Street Sacramento, CA 95814	Contact Us | Web Policy | Feedback Last Modified: Friday, April 15, 2005

[P-Marlowe]

This means if there are chemistry and physics electives, biology can be avoided.

Wrong.

See post 2515... from the California Deptartment of Education. (BTW, Isn't that an oxymoron?)

[donh]

I do NOT understand what frightens you people so- presenting BOTH THEORIES for what they are and allowing students to develop some critical thinking skills should be a GOOD thing.

What a good idea--I think we should invite tone-deaf people to teach music classes on occasion, and street rappers to teach english grammar once in a while, and we should bring in prostitutes from time to time to teach hygiene classes. This imperious narrowing of intellectual development in our children to only the things that we think are the attainments of our culture has got to stop.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

So why aren't there any mammal fossils from the precambrian era?

The 13 Sisters is a historical reference to the original thirteen colonies.

I was not aware that the feminists had reorganized the history of the US colonies in this manner. Do you have a reference?

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Thank you. I stand corrected.

[Coyoteman]

There is not one single fact to support evolution- not one.

You didn't like the "fact" I posted in #2501, above?

OK, here are a lot more facts. Enjoy.

Figure 1.4.4. Fossil hominid skulls. Some of the figures have been modified for ease of comparison (only left-right mirroring or removal of a jawbone). (Images © 2000 Smithsonian Institution.)

(A) Pan troglodytes, chimpanzee, modern
(B) Australopithecus africanus, STS 5, 2.6 My
(C) Australopithecus africanus, STS 71, 2.5 My
(D) Homo habilis, KNM-ER 1813, 1.9 My
(E) Homo habilis, OH24, 1.8 My
(F) Homo rudolfensis, KNM-ER 1470, 1.8 My
(G) Homo erectus, Dmanisi cranium D2700, 1.75 My
(H) Homo ergaster (early H. erectus), KNM-ER 3733, 1.75 My
(I) Homo heidelbergensis, "Rhodesia man," 300,000 - 125,000 y
(J) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, La Ferrassie 1, 70,000 y
(K) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, La Chappelle-aux-Saints, 60,000 y
(L) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, Le Moustier, 45,000 y
(M) Homo sapiens sapiens, Cro-Magnon I, 30,000 y
(N) Homo sapiens sapiens, modern