That's where you and I differ, then. "Grass-roots" usage of public facilities is not the same as "Congress passing a law respecting an establishment".
It strikes me that if you use government resources to promote religious beliefs you are violating every part of the 1st amendment that addresses religion, because thru taxes, you are stealing resources from all beliefs to support whichever belief has gained control, and monopolizing an influential public forum that, for example, monopolizes compelling children, by law, to attend.
Thank you, Rev. Lynn, may I have another?
Are you stealing the taxes, or are you using money which was going to go to the school anyway? Kids deciding to meet on their own for a Bible Study would fail your test, apparently; but it ought to be clear that the kids aren't members of Congress, there is no law involved, and that they are not "stealing" money any more than any other special-interest club meeting at the school. Accomodation is not the same as endorsement, endorsement is not the same as establishment.
Fine, my theory is that there is no such spectrum--the post-civil war amendments pushed respect for individual rights established in the Bill of Rights down on all levels of local government, including school boards.
Then we disagree on our premises.
As far as the Oregon remark, much of the "Left Coast" including Oregon is tainted by hostility to Christianity. From some of your posts, it looked like some of the hostility had rubbed off; from other of your posts, it seemed like you were expertly defending the supernatural. So what?
In an earlier post, you had asked me to "go insult someone else". I was fleshing out the thought behind my original Oregon remark.
Cheers!
...and Merry Christmas!
Full Disclosure: For the nonce, the whole ID in schools debate bores me to tears. It is pretty obvious that ID is not science, and so teaching ID in science class is a misnomer. Unless you're one of those folks who believe that extraterrestrials seeded the earth etc. In that case you ought to showcase ID next to VCR's of The X Files.
Cheers!
...and Merry Christmas!
Whatever "grass-roots" usage means, a public school is still a part of a local government in the US, and local governments in the US have had to respect rights established in the Bill of Rights, by constitutional law, ever since the post-civil war amendments to the constitution were ratified. You may not like this, but it is nonetheless, what the constitution says.
Are you stealing the taxes, or are you using money which was going to go to the school anyway?
I think you must have hugged a liberal lately. There is no significant "money which was going to the school anyway"; schools are overwhelmingly funded by compulsory taxation--of everyone: athiests, pastafarians, jainists, jews, moslems, wiccans, and raelians not excluded.
there is no law involved, and that they are not "stealing" money any more than any other special-interest club meeting at the school. Accomodation is not the same as endorsement, endorsement is not the same as establishment.
I don't believe we were addressing private clubs meeting in otherwise unoccupied buildings after hours, which I have no insurmountable problem with. I believe we were addressing the faculty of a school being forced to endorse a contemptuously thinly disguised christian religious doctrine in a science class which, as was pointed out earlier, children and their parents are lead to believe they are forced to attend if they want to graduate.
Contrary to your stated opinion, endorsement IS the same as establishment, and accomodation probably is to, if it costs anything significant to accomodate.
In an earlier post, you had asked me to "go insult someone else". I was fleshing out the thought behind my original Oregon remark.
Consider finding a way to flesh out your thoughts that doesn't involve using me as a noodle-scratching post.
Full Disclosure: For the nonce, the whole ID in schools debate bores me to tears.
Huh. That was pretty detailed arguing for a bored person.
It is pretty obvious that ID is not science,
Oh, it's more science than most of the marginal ideas vieing for scientific respectability. and so teaching ID in science class is a misnomer.
Well, it's not outstanding science, but it seems a little odd to call it a misnomer. Ether and phrenology were sciences, once upon a time, and ID has a better shot then they do.
Unless you're one of those folks who believe that extraterrestrials seeded the earth etc.
If you include unintelligent extra-terrestrials, then I do.
In that case you ought to showcase ID next to VCR's of The X Files.
ID's anemic cousin, panspermia, bears some promise. That doesn't make it a science of the legitimacy of the theory of gravity, or the theory of evolution, such that it belongs in a high school science book, but it ain't out of contention.