Returning to Dover [evolution trial in Dover, PA: week 2]

York Daily Record [Penna] ^ | 03 October 2005 | TERESA MCMINN

[Right Wing Professor]

It appears one of the proximate causes of the problem has been removed.

[trisham]

bookmark for later reading.

[b_sharp]

"Straw man arguement my @ss. that's exactly what evolution theory states. maybe you need to go and re-read what the thoery IS.

Here is the Theory of Evolution

malakhi You can repeat that to yourself over and over, but it isn't going to change the facts."

"FACTS!!!??? WHAT FACTS???? there isn't ONE FACT about evolution theory that holds water, But by all means, name them.

Natural selection, Allele variation within a population, adaptation, homology, speciation, mutations, fossil sequences,...

"is it a FACT that somehow an "entity" formed in nothing, from nothing exploded and evolved into everything?? That's no fact!!!

Nor is it evolution. It sounds more like a cross between the Big Bang and abiogenesis. You may have trouble differentiating between fields of science. It might be an idea to look into that since knowing the difference might help in your undestanding.

"That is a BELIEF, a RELIGION. It requires a leap of faith.

I assume you also include Cosmology, Physics - particularly quantum mechanics, Math - since it is impossible to show that all math is self-consistant (Godel), Astronomy, Geology, Geophysics (tectonics in particular), all of Biology of course, chemistry, and a number of other fields of science in that 'faith based' collapsing wave function of yours.

"And that's just the beginning. Somehow, it rained on a rock floating in space (with no atmosphere) for millions of years, creating rock soup, and somehow organic life sprang forth out of nothing, suddenly a cell formed, and in order to do that, a DNA atom with a library of complex information just "happened" to form, all these other ingredients just "happened" to be there at the same time, and them, if that isn't miraculous enough all life came from that over billions of years. HA! that isn't FACT!

Just a suggestion - maybe you should look into what science says about the early days of Earth before you trundle off, create some fantasy world replete with easily defeated enemies, then impress us with your ability to devastate those enemies. Very imaginative strawman. Fiction is definitely your strong point.

[PatrickHenry]

It appears that Phoroneus has been banned.

[wallcrawlr]

Please take notice to this response everyone.
My theory in action:

[RightWingNilla]

However, you will agree with me that just because something is like another thing it doesn't mean it shares the same origin.

No, I absolutely wouldnt agree with you in this case.

Would two books with the same typos in the exact same places likely to be from different sources? Only if you turn your brain off (like the OJ jury).

Why would a designer put in 'typos' anyway?

[Nathan Zachary]

Your side will have its day in court (literally). It will be amusing to see what they have to say when under oath.

What would your side say? It just came from nowhere by magic?,br> Whether you admit it or not, TOE relies on belief in the unknown just the same as creation, even more so. You cannot prove that intelligence does not exist anywhere else, you cannot prove that other realms do not exist outside this universe.
In fact, we can prove that we DO believe that there could be intelligence out there because we spend billions looking for it.

What you evo's just can't get through your heads is that ID does not neccesarly mean God. If fact, after DNA was discovered (by a evolutionist) he changed his opinion and suggested spores created by other inteligent life could have drifted to earth from another gallaxy.

[RightWingNilla]

What you evo's just can't get through your heads is that ID does not neccesarly mean God.

I should hope not. The design is quite shoddy.

[DoctorMichael]

I think you miss the similarity between the twin cults of ID/Creationism and Nation of Islam. They both believe that there is a Genetic Engineer that made humans at a designated point in time in the past. In this the ID/Creationists are kind of late to the table as the whacky Nation of Islam have already carved out this schtick.

Maybe Louis Farakhan should sue the ID/Creationists for violation of Intellectual Property? Their workin' his street-corner.

Just because YOU don't think that there are forces in the universe beyond what your understanding is, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Didn't Mel Gibson's deeply disturbed character say something similar in CONSPIRACY THEORY? Remember, the best conspiracy theories are ones that can't be proven false.

[longshadow]

It appears that Phoroneus has been banned.

I call your attention to my preditictive interrogatory in reply # 127 of this thread:

Any bets as to how many of them last the week....????

I assume the GrandMaster has made arrangements for my usual reward and commendatory proclamation to be inserted into my permanent record at DarwinCentral ......

[Right Wing Professor]

If fact, after DNA was discovered (by a evolutionist) he changed his opinion and suggested spores created by other inteligent life could have drifted to earth from another gallaxy.

Friedrich Miescher said that?

BTW, you should know there's another guy called Nathan Zachary, from Manitoba, posting on Free Dominion. By an amazing coincidence, he signed up for Free Dominion the exact same day you registered on Free Republic! I found a considerable number of America-bashing posts from him up there, relating to the cross-border outbreak of mad-cow. I decided I better warn you because while we have many wonderful Canadian posters here on FR, we don't like the kind of person who posts here and bashes the US elsewhere. And if you got mistaken for this other Nathan Zachary, people would think that's what you were doing.

[RunningWolf]

Touche

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"If fact, after DNA was discovered (by a evolutionist) he changed his opinion and suggested spores created by other inteligent life could have drifted to earth from another gallaxy."

Crick never stopped being an evolutionist. He didn't discover DNA either, btw; he discovered it's double helix structure. His hypothesis was an alternative to abiogenesis, not evolution. You don't seem to understand the difference.

[GrandEagle]

Looks like it had been an ugly day in the ongoing ID/EVO debate. Still wondering how Phoroneus got me on a ping list?
I would LOVE to jump in about now, but with the Hurricane our workload has skyrocketed!
Good news, but a bad reason for it!

Have a GREAT day everyone - on both sides of the discussion.

Cordially,
GE

[RunningWolf]

I forgot,

Will you put me on your ping list?

Wolf

[js1138]

What you evo's just can't get through your heads is that ID does not neccesarly mean God. If fact, after DNA was discovered (by a evolutionist) he changed his opinion and suggested spores created by other inteligent life could have drifted to earth from another gallaxy.

Spores, or organic molecules drifting in space are not intelligent designers. Everything in your body except hydrogen has a history inside a supernova. If the seeds of life drifted to earth, their history has just been pushed back, not explained.

As for what "our" side says in court, we shall see. All that's really necessary is to demonstrate that ID advocates are on record as being motivated by religion.

It is quite acceptable to me to have science books prefaced with a statement that many things are yet to be explained. I think it's a shame that kids might think we are so advanced that no really interesting problems are left for future generations to solve.

The problem with ID is that it doesn't suggest any methods for researching these problems.

[Junior]

You can lead a creationist to fodder, but you can't make him think.

[Nathan Zachary]

Every single anthropologist admits that there is no transitional record. Kathleen Hunt is a hoax, she says "it depends on what transitional means" so lets redefine 'transitional'. That isn't a fossil record, that's just another theory. Technically, she claims a dog is a pig is a frog is a fish. That's not a transitional fossil record. She says: " Ideally, of course, we would like to know each lineage right down to the species level, and have detailed species-to-species transitions linking every species in the lineage. But...." and gives her THEORY again. There is no transitional record.

All she does is try come up with a reason why there ISN'T ONE.

In fact, we have a very detailed fossil record, our museums are filled with over 100 million fossils of 250,000 different species. It doesn't leave any room for her theory, and if it held any water the record we have would show evidence of it.

In real life, transitional means from a fish, then a fish with fins turning into legs, then gills becomming both lungs as well as gills, then becomming more defined over time untill the gills are no longer needed and dissapear. AND HAVING THE FOSSIL RECORD TO PROVE IT. Dr. Colin Patterson, Senior Paleontologist at the British Museum is a well known expert having an intimate knowledge of the fossil record. He says there is no record. David B. Kitts. PhD (Zoology) is Head Curator of the Department of Geology at the Stoval Museum he says there is no transitional record in existance.

[Thatcherite]

Why did you ping me with your complaints? I've posted only once in this thread since the first three posts. And I don't recall that I've ever posted to you in my life.

And why didn't he ping the people who are filling this thread with ignorant rants? There must be thoughtful people on the creationist side who are embarrassed by the postings of some of their supporters. Why do we see so little evidence of this?

[js1138]

Any theories on who it was?