Returning to Dover [evolution trial in Dover, PA: week 2]

York Daily Record [Penna] ^ | 03 October 2005 | TERESA MCMINN

[PatrickHenry]

After a weekend break from a court case involving intelligent design, the Dover school board officials will face business as usual. The board today will hold its first school board meeting since the trial began.

On Sunday, Dover school board member David Napierski said he sympathized with the time fellow members Shelia Harkins and Alan Bonsell have spent on the court case.

“I really haven’t seen it erode them from their duties,” he said. “It definitely has taken a lot of their time . . . I think it is sapping some of the people, too.”

The trial began Sept. 26 in U.S. Middle District Court in Harrisburg. It resumes Wednesday.

Napierski hopes to attend at least one day per week of the trial.

“We’re seeing one side of the whole picture right now,” he said. “I think it’s going to go all the way up to the Supreme Court.”

He said dealing with the court case while running the school district is a “double-edged sword.

“I just hope and pray that our focus will stay on business,” he said.

School district residents might have a difficult time resuming day-to-day life as it was before the trial began.

Lonnie Langioni left his position as a school board member in Dover in 2003. He said the issue has divided the community and he wants folks to again be friends.

“We’re just going to have to let it run its course,” he said about the trial. “I’m just waiting for the day that this is all over and that the people of Dover can go back to talking to each other again.”

He said he follows the case and reads newspapers and articles online.

“It’s crossed all kinds of lines,” he said of the trial. “Dover is a great community. We all need to respect each others’ viewpoints.”

Former Dover school board member Barrie Callahan, a plaintiff in the court case, is ready to spend more time in court this week.

“The case needs to proceed,” she said Saturday. “I know the issue. To see it through the process is truly fascinating.

“You’re seeing the best of the best,” she said about attorneys. “It is an honor to be in their presence.”

She said she’s been following news of the trial posted online.

“It’s not about little tiny Dover,” she said. “This case really, really is important.”

UPDATE

Trial schedule: The trial resumes Wednesday and Thursday in U.S. Middle District Court in Harrisburg and is scheduled to continue Oct. 12, 14, 17 through 21, 24, 27 and Nov. 2 through 4.

At stake: It’s the most significant court challenge to evolution since 1987, and it’s the first time a court has been asked to rule whether intelligent design can be taught in public schools. Experts say the case’s outcome could influence how science is defined and taught in schools across the country. The lead defense lawyer said he wanted to take the case to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Coming this week: Among the scheduled witnesses: Dover school district science teacher Bertha Spahr and Jennifer Miller and plaintiffs Cynthia Sneath, Joel Leib and Deb Fenimore.

Barbara Forrest, a professor of philosophy at Southeastern Louisiana University, also is scheduled. Forrest co-authored “Creationism’s Trojan Horse,” subtitled “The Wedge of Intelligent Design.”

[RogueIsland]

My point is that sometimes things are very identical because they are designed that way. It does not prove anything about evolution.

But in the case of cars, we know they don't sneak off to do the nasty after being put in the garage at night, so we know they don't genetically inherit design features from previous generations of automobiles. If they did, and we also saw no observable evidence of the intervention of automotive designers implementing design changes, it would be reasonable to conclude that the similarities between the cars indicated a common ancestor automobile.

[Nathan Zachary]

who the heck is Randal Niles?

[shuckmaster]

who the heck is Randal Niles?

If you don't know, you'd better do some research! He's the guy who's been plagiarizing your writings and posting them on the Internet cleverly pre-dated to make it appear as if he wrote them first.

[RunningWolf]

I don't know what all Nathan Zachary has written. In all fairness, a look at most (if not all) would show some pulling of text off the INET.

But then, fairness is not part of these things is it?

Wolf

[3dognight]

It might your reasonable conclusion, but that does not make it a fact.

[3dognight]

It might your reasonable conclusion, but that does not make it a fact.

[wallcrawlr]

This thread got out of hand early and should be shut down for shear embarrassment. Threads like this are stereotypical reasons others on Fr probably wonder why they give money to Fr. Why contribute knowing your money keeps bullcrap bickering and bitch fest threads like this alive.

I've slowly and cautiously tried to be respectful to many evo's I've come across here. That hard and patient work by both sides should not topple so fast just because a couple comments are made. NO MATTER WHO SAYS THEM.

I was not here in the past through all the previous garbage, I was not a part of the group that got banned, I am a regular joe schmo lunch pail slob that simply likes to read interesting articles about the origins of life.

I dont mind reading about how other people believe differently. Many times I find it quite interesting that people can hold particular views.

Don’t even say to me, well this group of people behaves like this…so we can too. It sounds like you’re 8 years old.
A good walk away from the keyboard can cure a lot of the arguments on here. People need to quit reading threads with the point of making sure their pride isn’t going to get hurt.

I aint perfect but life has a way of making you realize what does and does not matter. Having someone post a rude comment to you does not mean you have to go ape-crap full of revenge. Don’t take the flame bait.

Recently (over the past couple weeks) I’ve had a couple posts with evo’s that have nothing to do with evo. Do you realize how refreshing that is to realize you probably still have something in common with people of different viewpoints. Do you realize how human you will become to each other instead of an empty screen.

I can appreciate sarcasm and humor but mocking, name-calling and rudeness need not be the typical response we try to needle each other with. Again, NO MATTER WHO SAYS THEM.

Alright rant over, I needed to get that out.

till later…

Revelation 4:11Intelligent Design
See my profile for info

[RightWingNilla]

My point is that sometimes things are very identical because they are designed that way. It does not prove anything about evolution.

Its not just the functional parts (only about 3%) that are shared. All of the genetic garbage and broken stuff is as well.

How do you explain that? A designer who would (a.) Make all of these mistakes in the first place (95% of the time) AND (b.) Put them in organisms in such a pattern as to explicitly spell out common descent is either stupid, malicous, deceitful or all three.

[jennyp]

There is no transitional fossil record.This is what is needed to give any evidence for Darwins theory of evolution ( descent with modification). There is no transitional fossil record.

But by all means, if you claim there is one show us all. I'm sure every museum in the world would be interested in acquiring it for even ONE species.

For the lurkers who are genuinely wondering about this:

• This eight-year old list has over 200 transitional fossils.
   
• If they found a true transitional between chimps & humans, how would we laypeople know? Perhaps if creationists themselves couldn't agree on whether the fossil was "just an old ape" vs. "just an old human"!

[KMJames]

How's FR policy these days on calling one's opponents homosexuals?

...as Seinfeld would add, "Not that there's anything wrong with that."

[RightWingNilla]

There is no transitional fossil record.

Try visiting a natural history museum sometime.

[RightWingNilla]

It might your reasonable conclusion, but that does not make it a fact.

The OJ jury would agree with you.

[PatrickHenry]

Why did you ping me with your complaints? I've posted only once in this thread since the first three posts. And I don't recall that I've ever posted to you in my life.

[Nathan Zachary]

There is a big difference between the Christian God and that rock Islam follows, but then you would have to study both to know. Just because YOU don't think that there are forces in the universe beyond what your understanding is, doesn't mean they don't exist.

As far as science is concerned on this planet, The complex DNA language fits the definition of machine, which requires intelligence to build. The cell can't create itself without it, so that leaves the question how did the DNA molecule create itself?

What would be the purpose of it creating itself when the cell did not yet exist? All things would have to be present at the same time for that one single purpose. It is simply far to complex to have created itself spontaneously. the odds are beyond calculation, and is billions of times past the scientific definition of impossible. (one in 10/40) Just who believes in magic?

[<1/1,000,000th%]

This thread got out of hand early and should be shut down for shear embarrassment. Threads like this are stereotypical reasons others on Fr probably wonder why they give money to Fr. Why contribute knowing your money keeps bullcrap bickering and bitch fest threads like this alive.

Quit beating around the bush and state your point. :)

[js1138]

Alright rant over, I needed to get that out.

In general it's best to hit the back button before posting stuff like that. You want Mommy Moderator to wipe your bottom for you?

[wallcrawlr]

2 fold:

You posted the article on the thread so I used it to bounce my comments off of.

You maintain the evo list and I thought you should know.

[3dognight]

How do you explain that? A designer who would (a.) Make all of these mistakes in the first place (95% of the time) AND (b.) Put them in organisms in such a pattern as to explicitly spell out common descent is either stupid, malicous, deceitful or all three.

I'm not able to explain it, but I know I don't call the Creator stupid, malicious, or deceitful. I am thankful for being designed as I am. However, you will agree with me that just because something is like another thing it doesn't mean it shares the same origin.

[js1138]

And I don't recall that I've ever posted to you in my life.

Yes you did. Right here.

[PatrickHenry]

Yes you did. Right here.

Oh yeah. I remember now.