Posted on 06/19/2005 9:33:26 PM PDT by Lady In Blue
Pope set to return to traditional liturgy:-
VATICAN CITY | June 19, 2005 5:11:27 AM IST
Pope Benedict XVI wants to restore the traditional ceremonial Mass in St. Peter's Basilica, with Latin instead of the vernacular and Gregorian chants.
Vatican expert Sandro Magister reported in his weekly newsletter Saturday that the pope is expected to replace Archbishop Pietro Marini, his predecessor Pope John Paul II's master of liturgical ceremonies.
Whoever follows Marini will have orders to restore the traditional style and choreography of papal ceremonies in St. Peter's.
Out will go the international Masses so dear to Pope John Paul II's heart, with such innovations as Latin American and African rhythms and even dancing, multi-lingual readings and children in national costumes bringing gifts to the altar.
Pope Benedict wants to return to the Sistine Chapel choirs singing Gregorian chant and the church music of such composers as Claudio Monteverdi from the 17th century. He also wants to revive the Latin Mass.
Archbishop Marini always planned the ceremonies with television in mind, Magister said, and that emphasis will remain. A decade ago the Vatican set up a system for transmitting papal ceremonies world wide via multiple satellites.
(UPI)
I have a tendency to deliberately invent my own words, but that was a product of my subconscious mind, at best. :^D
>> That's because we don't say the Apostles' Creed at Mass; we say the Nicene Creed, which doesn't include that phrase. ;-) <<
What, you don't stick around for the rosary afterwards?
(/Holier-than-thou schtick)
>> All my quibbles with the Salve Regina are matters of taste. <<
Well, there are many translation issues which are grave, not just matters of taste. So even if I agreed with you on taste, I'd pick a more serious example.
My guess is that almost everyone interested in an "Anglican Use" would be interested ONLY in Rite I, but that the politics of the protocol demanded the Rite II inclusion (pardon the pun!). I do like the three new Lord's Day Prefaces (one of God the Father, of God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit: in BOTH Rites) . . . typical Anglican "succinctness" and beautiful language.
Also unfortunate that they had to put the modern words of consecration in the middle of that lovely Coverdale version of the Roman Canon.
Interesting, however, that the then-Cardinal Ratzinger, because of his Curial position, had to help work out the details of the "pastoral provision." No doubt he was familiar with a similar arrangement (though NOT with its own liturgy) worked out by Pius XII for some married Lutheran pastors in Germany in the 1950s.
I know this is off topic, but I'm not sure where else I can post this. I have a friend I have been turning from paganism and introducing to Catholicism. She's interested in attending Mass. I cannot be there as I live in Virginia and she lives in the Atlanta area, basically I was hoping an Atlanta-area FReeper or two might be able to suggest a good, non-heterodox parish for her to go to. Anywhere in Atlanta or Lawrenceville, Cumming, Suwanee, Gainesville, Duluth, Dacula, any of those places would be fine. Can anyone help me out here?
I think I know someone who might know.
That would be great if you could help me out. Thanks in advance!
I hope they don't do this in the parishes for all masses. It's like worshipping in Chinese to me. I'm not RC but I enjoy worshipping with other Christians who are.
Latin Mass might be too much for her, but on the other hand if she's coming from a pagan background it would probably fascinate her. And they are REALLY orthodox in this parish: St. Francis de Sales, Mableton
How far out of town does your friend live? Most of the communities you mention are in the far northeast suburbs - except for Cumming which is far north. If she lives out that way, our parish would be a very long haul.
Unfortunately, I am not familiar with the Catholic parishes out that way. But I know there is a FReeper who lives in the Peachtree Corners area (that's northeast) who is very orthodox and has a pastor who is very orthodox too. But I can't remember his/her name, other than that I think it begins with "D" . . . . Maybe if we ping the Catholic list.
Unlike the Novus Ordo ward heelers of forty years ago, we can be generous enough to allow the Novus Ordo to continue to be said for those who simply MUST have such rubrics but to give it absolutely no encouragement as we return to our traditions and liturgical roots.
It is time to sell the modern architecture big box monstrosity church buildings to serve as designer boutiques or Home Depots, restore the wreckovated church buildings for the liturgy they were originally to house, and even build some new traditional churches. Remove and burn the hot dog stands that replaced our altars.
If you want to restore the Church Militant, few measures will further that goal more than restoring the liturgy of our ancestors.
Of course, God hears your prayers. Of course, you are no less Catholic for attending Novus Ordo Masses.
That having been said, why not offer to God the best we have to offer: a thoroughly reverent liturgy, Gregorian Chant, Palestrina, instead of banal Kumbaya stuff?
It is no coincidence that the Church learned to shut up and hide its light at about the same time that it adopted a second-rate liturgy. Many expect B-16 to be a mere transitional pope because of his age. It may turn out that JPII (a magnificent pope IMHO) was the transitional pope preparing the way for what B-16 will have to offer us. B-16 was a radical peritus at V-II and turned back to tradition not long thereafter. He knows intimately the damage that was done and he likely was elected to reverse it. JP II was elected to accomplish the end of the Soviet Empire.
That we pray to God is quite important. George Weigel (JP II biographer) and Anne Applebaum (WaPo columnist married to Radek Sikorski) were on Book TV over the weekend claiming that JP II's World Youth Days and special outreach to the young were vital seeds for very one-sided French and Dutch youth voting to reject the Euro constitution. Very important work.
How we pray to God is also important. That appears at this point to be B-16's mission. Internal Church war over liturgy would be far bloodier than over the rejection of Marxism and liberalism. here are reasons for this. Read Pius X's encyclical Pascendi Domenici Gregis and its accompanying syllabus of errors Lamentabile Sane. The modernist heresy against which he railed and acted was allowed breathing room by Pope Benedict XV (1914-1922) who apparently thought that suppression of heresy was declasse, gauche, medieval and not at all acceptable in his social circle. Modernism simmered underground for fifty years and burst forth in the late 1960s. A thousand flowers of non-Catholic radicalism bloomed: pacifism, environmentalism, half-vast Marxist economics, unilateral disarmament, liturgical experimentalism, national bishops' conferences acting as though they had actual collective authority (morality by ecclesiastical pseudo-legislative fiat nation-by-nation????), anarchy in the pews, bad music, worse liturgical abuses, consecrating loaves of French bread to be ripped apart and consumed (or spilled onto the floor to be walked on by parishioners at St. Margaret Sanger's) and so many, many more abuses.
Crush the abuses. Let the offended leave. Let those genuinely attached to the Novus Ordo attend it for so long as they insist. Restore the liturgy and the traditional teachings of the Church and its historic confrontational style against the world, the flesh and the devil. Chase the heterodox hierarchs into retirement or excommunication as may be desired or necessary. Purge the seminaries once and for all and chase the poofters from the priesthood. This would be a painful overall prescription in temporary ways but it is far better to suffer the temporary pain for the eventual restoration of Church authority as a force in the world.
May God bless Benedict XVI in his every Catholic effort.
Here's our choir (we made the front of the Archdiocesan paper - in color and above the fold! Kinda sparse attendance 'cause it was set up after Mass, and it was the Sunday after Easter . . . . but there we are in all our glory. And we DID really sing for the photog . . . < g > )
Chant, Sacred Classics Reverberate Again in Parishes
The article is very interesting because it discusses the return to traditional music - chant and Renaissance polyphony. Our choirmaster (who is a genius) is extensively quoted.
dsc: Your last sentence cannot be repeated too often. Post it again and again and again.
Words/authority/action. Perfect? No. Left work for his successor(s)? Yep. BUT: St. John Paul the Great. Slam dunk.
Yeah..I noticed the changeover! It was a bit jarring.
But this is the first I've heard about a "Coverdale" Roman Canon. Was this an older translation that the pastoral provision used?
Thanks a lot for your help. I'd ping the Catholic list though I have no idea how to ping a ping list, LOL!
rw: Since you are not a Catholic, those of us who are will be sure to solicit your incredibly deep and wrong "Scriptural inshights" if and when we feel the need. Don't hold your breath and, ummmmm, mind your own beeswax.
See #217 which applies to schismatics as well as to heretics. If and when you return to the Church, be sure to let us know.
Generally, people talk on a discussion forum. Don't like it? You can leave.
Since you insist on butting into Catholic policies that are absolutely none of your business, do you love God so little that you won't bother learning Latin or even buying a Missal?
Actually, these are not your real objections. You deny most sacraments, deny the Mass, den the Real Presence and you object to the obvious fact that the Roman Catholic Church founded by Jesus Christ upon Peter (it was in all the Bibles) and guaranteed by Him is NOT your church and that it refuses to take seriously the "teaching magisterium" or rank effrontery of every Tom, Dick and Harriet with a bible, a few reading lessons and a LOT of issues and agendas in conflict with the Truth and Christ's own Church.
Can you point to one instance in which a Catholic has butted into your church's (if any) internal governance (if any)????
There is a reason: we don't really care how your church (if any) governs itself (if at all). We don't have to care any mlore than we care how the Buddhists or Shintos or Muslims handle their internal religious governance.
At least, you seem to concede that the Roman Catholic Church IS the Church of Christ. May you someday come home to it.
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