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Bush says Cold War captivity one of great wrongs
NY Times ^ | May 7, 2005 | REUTERS

Posted on 05/07/2005 3:20:28 PM PDT by neverdem

Filed at 1:34 p.m. ET

RIGA (Reuters) - President Bush denounced Soviet Cold War rule of eastern Europe as ``one of the greatest wrongs of history'' on Saturday in a jab at Moscow two days before celebrations of the 1945 victory over Hitler.

Bush, visiting Latvia before the ceremonies in Moscow marking 60 years since the end of World War II in Europe, also held up the three Baltic states as examples of democratic reform since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

He said the end of the war brought liberty from fascism for many in Germany but meant the ``iron rule of another empire'' for the Baltic states -- Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia -- and nations from Poland to Romania.

Bush admitted the United States shared some responsibility for the Cold War division of Europe after the 1945 Yalta accord between Russia, the United States and Britain.

``Once again, when powerful governments negotiated, the freedom of small nations was somehow expendable,'' he said. ``Yet this attempt to sacrifice freedom for the sake of stability left a continent divided and unstable.

``The captivity of millions in central and eastern Europe will be remembered as one of the greatest wrongs of history,'' he said in a speech at Riga's guildhall.

The three Baltic states joined both NATO and the European Union last year.

Bush's visit to Riga has angered Russia by reviving tensions about the Soviet occupation when Moscow is focusing on celebrating the end of World War II, a conflict that cost 27 million Soviet lives.

Russian President Vladimir Putin dismissed calls by the Baltic states for an apology for Soviet rule and accused them on Saturday of trying to cover up past Nazi collaboration.

BUSH MEETS PUTIN

The differing versions of history may make for frictions when Bush meets Putin in Moscow on Sunday and Monday.

Putin insists the Red Army was a liberator, not an oppressor, of Eastern Europe.

``Our people not only defended their homeland, they liberated 11 European countries,'' Putin said on Saturday after laying a wreath at a monument to Russia's war dead.

In a recent state of the nation speech he bemoaned the demise of the Soviet Union as ``the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.'' He has also said Washington should not try to export its own brand of democracy.

Bush said Russia's leaders had made ``great progress'' in the past 15 years.

``In the long run it is the strength of Russian democracy that will determine the greatness of Russia and I believe the Russian people value their freedom and will settle for no less,'' he said.

``As we mark a victory of six decades ago, we are mindful of a paradox. For much of Germany, defeat led to freedom. For much of Eastern and Central Europe, victory brought the iron rule of another empire.''

He also held up the Baltics as examples of successful shifts to democracy, a theme he stressed for nations including Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Belarus.

``These are extraordinary times that we're living in and the three Baltic countries are capable of helping Russia and other countries in this part of the world see the benefits of what it means to live in a free society,'' Bush told a news conference.

But Bush did not back pleas by the Baltic countries for an apology from Russia. ``My hope is that we are able to move on,'' he said.

He later flew to the Netherlands where he will spend Saturday night.

The presidents of Lithuania and Estonia will boycott the May 9 ceremonies in Moscow. Georgia's president will also stay away, but Latvia's president will attend.

All three Baltic nations, whose combined population is now about 6 million, were occupied by the Soviet Union in June 1940 after a pact between Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia which divided up spheres of influence in East Europe.

In 1941, German troops occupied the Baltics and remained there until the end of the war when Soviet troops returned and ruled with an iron fist. The collapse of communism enabled the Baltic states to win their independence in 1991.

Bush also urged free elections in Belarus, which shares borders with Lithuania and Latvia, and ruled out any secret U.S deal with Moscow allowing President Alexander Lukashenko to remain in power. ``We don't make secret deals,'' he said.

Latvian President Vaira Vike-Freiberga wrote in the Washington Post on Saturday: ``Russia would gain immensely by ... expressing its genuine regret for the crimes of the Soviet regime.

``Until Russia does so ... its relations with its immediate neighbors will remain uneasy at best.''

But writing in the French daily Le Figaro, Putin dismissed calls for an apology and accused the Baltic countries of trying to justify their own government's ``discriminatory and reprehensible policy'' toward their Russian-speaking populations.

Police detained about 20 protesters from Latvia's big Russian minority after they hurled smoke bombs in a demonstration against Bush.

``Bush is a horror,'' said protest leader Beness Aija. Posters in another demonstration said: ``Stop the war in Iraq.''

But many Latvians welcome Bush. ``It's important to recognize the struggle that our fathers had against communists and the Soviet Union,'' said Ugis Senbergs, a 50-year-old architect.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: bush43; bushupsetscommies; coldwar; destroagain; easterneurope; estonia; georgia; latvia; lithuania; poland; romania; russiavisit; wwii
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Comment #141 Removed by Moderator

To: Condor51
The bottom line is that those in Lithuania who could escape the Communists did. They fled west, finally into Germany with all they could carry on their backs. And yes, the Nazis were seen as less of a threat, or less 'evil', than the Communists.

Of course, the Nazis were busy recruiting the Baltic into the SS. Or how do you think the Jews of Riga got the bullets in their heads? And for that matter, what do you think happened to the Jews of Berlin after their long train ride to Riga.

Furthermore, the Estonian, Latvian and Lithuanian Legions, on their retreat with the rest of the Germans, were there to demolish Warsaw one building at a time.

142 posted on 05/08/2005 9:32:48 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth == Christ)
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To: Destro

ms_68's previous claims were that the cities that Poland gobbled up from Kieven Russ in the 1200s were never Kieven Russ but were Poland's for 1000 years (regardless that there was no Poland that far back). Then this guy showed maps of the Roman empire showing there was no Kieven Russ (thus those cities didn't belong to them but to Poland, never mind those cities didn't exist and there was also no Poland in existance). Don't even bother with this guy. Just post evidence to dismiss his claims and be done with it.


143 posted on 05/08/2005 9:36:11 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth == Christ)
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To: Destro
Yalta has been worked up into something it was not.

Although I don't share your fatalism about the Yalta conference, your analysis of the situation globally at the time certainly rings true, and actions taken need to be evaluated in light of those times, not the present. No one was about to risk any more American lives for the sake of the Bulgarias (or the Latvias) of the world.

Nevertheless, it is bracing to hear the American President announce to the world that the structures of a specious stability are no longer a legitimate substitute for the freedom of self-determination.

144 posted on 05/08/2005 9:50:26 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: ms_68
I once showed you maps. So, you are either an idiot or a blind man

Yeah, you showed me maps during the Polish occupation, I showed you maps before the Polish occupation, but you couldn't comprehend that, so you showed me maps from the Roman empire, when Poland also didn't exist. At that point I figured out whom I was dealing with and didn't bother to take you as intellegent.

145 posted on 05/08/2005 10:07:57 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth == Christ)
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To: ms_68

M-68 sir:). You firstly said that you have United Nation statictics about "2 mlns poles sent to Sibira". Now you have given to me some article of some manipulator- propagandist instead of promised factual statistics of UN.

OK Now I say you didn't concocted it by yourself but you just repeat it after some other propagandist. It means that you just repeater as radio and doesn't include your OWN mind in process.
It is no good for intellegent man.


146 posted on 05/08/2005 10:13:04 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: Grzegorz 246

In the case of France we allied with the exiled Charles de Gaulle and his Free French govt. The French collaborationist govt was either hanged or jailed by de Gaulle.


147 posted on 05/08/2005 10:14:09 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Condor51; Cagey
The Nazis killed more POW than those at Malmedy. In fact if you add in the death toll of Eastern POWs - Poles included - the death toll is in the millions.

So take your pro-Nazi the Germans were not so bad revisionist history and shove it.

148 posted on 05/08/2005 10:16:08 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Condor51
Lithunia was an ally of the Nazis - I will concede they may not have signed the Axis treaty but they were Nazi Germany's military ally.
149 posted on 05/08/2005 10:17:20 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: jb6

Greg and m_68 are both just victims of anti-russian propaganda.
I saw it before I recognise a plot.

When I live in USSR I remember people who beleived in commies propaganda. They was "true beleivers" who vehemently shouted on those who put doubts on those propagandist stereotypes.
BUT later when under burden of solid facts their faith crumbled they became another extreme - they become anti-commie propagandists.
Same way propaganda but from different view direction. Now they demonising everything which they beleive before.
I think those two are such case. Any propaganda is propaganda. It is not truth.
Intellegent men doesn't succumb to propaganda.


150 posted on 05/08/2005 10:22:41 AM PDT by RusIvan
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Comment #151 Removed by Moderator

To: ms_68; RusIvan
What is wrong with you Slavs? The Poles were liberated by the Soviets to the extent that under the Nazis Poles were to be turned into a slave nation. I agree Poland free of Germany and the Soviets would have been the ideal but if I was a Pole I rather have lived under Soviet occupation than living under the Nazis who saw me as sub-human.

That is why the Russians view their position as liberating Eastern Europe because it liberated the Slavic people from a race war waging Nazi regime that sought to liquidate and carry out genocide against the Slavic peoples to turn what survived into a race of "slaves" for Germans.

152 posted on 05/08/2005 10:25:21 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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Comment #154 Removed by Moderator

Comment #155 Removed by Moderator

To: hinckley buzzard
The error of Yalta (just like in the case of Nuremburg) the Western allies wanted to create some sort of world order for peace after WW2 to avoid the mistakes of the past so they legitimized what in reality is the age old concept of "right by conquest" into some sort of pseudo-political frame work.

If Yalta did not happen - the Soviets would still have occupied what they occupied but there would have been no legitimacy to their holdings. I don't think it would have changed a thing in the long run but it would not have soiled "our" hands.

I repeat again because I bet most Americans don't remember or know this fact that except for Poland all the Eastern European nations that fell under Soviet occupation were allies with the Nazis.

No American was going to die to save former Nazi allied nations from the (what I am sure most Americans considered the rightful) wrath of the Soviets.

156 posted on 05/08/2005 10:36:47 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: ms_68

You posted a picture with a fake backstory froma neo-nazi peronista looking website.


157 posted on 05/08/2005 10:37:41 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Atlantic Friend
Did you read #85 ? This Putinist claim that those countries weren't liberated, because they were "Nazi allies". Their governments were forced to join Germany in the war against the Soviets or joined Germany after had been back stabbed by Soviets. My point is not that France was a Nazi ally. I said that If they didn't deserve to be free and independent after the war, so the same should have happened with France and first of all with West Germany, Austria and Italy.
158 posted on 05/08/2005 10:38:37 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: hosepipe; neverdem

The Russians view their position as liberating Eastern Europe because it liberated the Slavic people from a race war waging Nazi regime that sought to liquidate and carry out genocide against the Slavic peoples to turn what survived into a race of "slaves" for Germans.


159 posted on 05/08/2005 10:40:14 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: jb6

he is posting from neo-nazi websites.


160 posted on 05/08/2005 10:42:12 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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