Posted on 03/29/2005 8:58:34 AM PST by Long Cut
We, the Witness Protection Program For Freepers, aka the Wild Turkeys, aka the Coalition of the Sane, have through mutual discussion and rigourous thought, determined that:
1. The discussion threads regarding Terri Schiavo (hereafter referred to as "TS") have become too full of innuendo, rumormongering, hyperbole, hysteria, namecalling, paranoia, and general poor behavior to warrant participation.
2. Said threads have degenerated into "echo chambers", wherein the same, common thoughts are continually posted again and again, and the same old disreputable, unconfirmed and/or false urban myths are propagated.
3. Anyone who joins in said theads with alternative viewpoints to the most extreme posts are routinely driven away with slander, accusations, and vile namecalling.
4. No data or evidence contrary to the "prevailing opinions" are accepted, considered, or discussed; and in fact are rejected outright in most instances.
5. That the continued calls for armed insurrection, military or paramilitary involvement, impeachements of politicians and judges, and death threats are embarassing, stupid, shortsighted, doomed to failure, and contrary to most if not all conservative thought prior to this case, as well as damaging in the extreme to FR and the conservative movement as a whole.
6. That such emotional, hyperbolic, and propaganda-driven hysteria is in fact contrary to all conservatives USED to stand for.
7. That the holding up of swastika and other Nazi imagery towards the police and the Bushes, the use of children as political props, and the disruption of the peace at the Woodside Hospice can only reflect badly on conservatives in general, and should be discouraged.
8. That the pursuit of this issue to the exclusion of all others by the GOP has damaged, perhaps beyond repair, the pursuit of other important issues as well as the reputation of the GOP, FR, and conservatism.
The WPPFF is NOT of one mind as to the case of TS or its correct outcome. In fact, wide disagreement exists within our little group. However, we are united in our wish that reason and sanity be respected in the discussion, as well as the rights of all parties involved or participating. We wish to discuss this as adults and intellectuals, as conservatives and as FRiends, not as children screaming past each other on some playground of hysteria. We wish for facts and evidence to be provided, discussed reasonably, and considered fairly.
We reject all accusations of Naziism, "death cultism", or other slander as methods of debate. We reject the practice of "spamming" multiple threads, of posting unending vanities, and the posting of propaganda and calls for violence. We reject, in fact, all unseemly and childish behavior which has come to characterize this case on FR.
We DO invite others to come and reasonably discuss the issue. We have no problem with FReepers who wish to debate in a rational and fair manner, and with due respect for their fellow FReepers. We have NO problem with those whose views are formed by religion; however we reject "preaching" or "being beaten with a Bible" as legitemite debate tactics. Not all of us are Believers, and such tactics only cheapen the source.
If a FReeper finds this an acceptable meansd to discuss this and other issues, they are welcome to join in and participate. Those who find pleasure in attacks, flame-baiting, slander, stalking, and personal atacks will be ignored, and their egos will go unfed.
We assume this thread to be a zone of sanity in an overheated atmosphere. Thus, a general amnesty is in effect. If posters conduct themselves within the guidlines above, we will be happy to discuss and debate with you. If a poster wishes to apologize for past slips of the tongue, or for possible "over-the-top" statements to another, it will be graciously accepted, and your company welcome.
Please bring a sense of humor; we feel that too many have been taking themselves too seriously lately.
Let the discussion begin!
Signed,
The WPPFF, aka The Wild Turkeys, aka the Coalition of the Sane.
Actually, I didn't address 2 of 5 - your claims about separation of powers and your claims about the alleged disadvantaged position of the Schindlers at the trial level. I simply disagree with your characterization of what the courts did vis-a-vis the legislature. It looks to me like they effected everything the legislature passed, as required by those laws. With regard to the alleged mismatch, I shudder to think of what happens to our legal system is some socialistic effort to ensure that all parties have equal skill and resources to bring to bear is instituted.
The right to life is the fundamental right in this case.
Her wishes are immaterial. The right to life is inalienable - it cannot be legitimately surrendered (that's what inalienable means). Moreover, her wishes are not established with any degree of certainty, and most surely not with sufficient certainty deprive her of the right to life.
In any other case where the government deprives a citizen of the right to life, the standard is "beyond a reasonable doubt". And indeed, Terri Schiavo deserves no less than a jury trial for her capital crime of being injured and unable to speak for herself.
Welcome :)
BTW - for many, many reasons, I believe that the execution of the Bush v. Gore decision was atrocious. I won't hold that up as an example of a properly functioning judiciary, ever.
See, it didn't take us long to get there.
Your stated view is that, if Terri were able to communicate and clearly stated "Disconnect the tube," it wouldn't matter - the tube would stay in. That may be your view, but it isn't Florida law. Nor is is Federal law.
Yes, agreed. She has become a piece of property to be disposed of by her owner as he sees fit, just as was Dred Scott.
People don't seem to understand that our history is littered with unjust judgements that were reached through technically proper adjudication of the laws that denied fundamental rights.
Isn't that what most groups of people getting together to discuss thing is anyway? Whether you do it on campus, at a coffee shop, over a pitcher of beer or online...same thing.
Pretty much, yeah LOL
The Soviet Union is kaput, but there's still North Korea!
No, you are making an inference that does not follow. She is entitled to refuse medical treatment. She is not entitled to commit suicide, even under Florida law. It is also not credible to believe that she would choose to starve herself to death.
I'm not hanging my hat on Levin. As noted - but denied by you, despite his words - FRIST explicitly acknowledged that, under the law they were passing, a stay was DISCRETIONARY. You contend that the Court SHOULD HAVE understood that the bill read that way because a bill making it mandatory would not have passed. I contend they explicitly did look at that point, and ruled, properly, that if a law that made it mandatory would not pass, then the law that did pass did not make it mandatory.
Welcome to my list of people I know to be dishonest and won't be wasting any time replying to in the future.
Going into Day 12 now... I'd say her will to live is plain as day.
Sadly, we're the voices in the wilderness here. The number of people willing to err on the side of death is staggering. And unbelievably disheartening.
Convenience is king in America.
Add me to the WPPFF.
There's no point in continuing this, I think. We shall make our case in the murder trials to follow.
It may not be credible to you. But people refuse them, consciously and willingly, all the time.
You position has boiled down to either (1) Terri can't refuse a feeding tube or (2) I can't believe she would refuse a feeding tube. Neither of those comports with applicable law.
Great. That means a lot, coming from you.
That's not my position at all, I tell you a second time.
My position is that she cannot be deprived of life under the law. The feeding tube is in itself only important in that withdrawing it is the instrument by which she will be deprived of life.
FYI!
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