Just what the doctor ordered, so to speak.
Posted on 03/29/2005 8:58:34 AM PST by Long Cut
We, the Witness Protection Program For Freepers, aka the Wild Turkeys, aka the Coalition of the Sane, have through mutual discussion and rigourous thought, determined that:
1. The discussion threads regarding Terri Schiavo (hereafter referred to as "TS") have become too full of innuendo, rumormongering, hyperbole, hysteria, namecalling, paranoia, and general poor behavior to warrant participation.
2. Said threads have degenerated into "echo chambers", wherein the same, common thoughts are continually posted again and again, and the same old disreputable, unconfirmed and/or false urban myths are propagated.
3. Anyone who joins in said theads with alternative viewpoints to the most extreme posts are routinely driven away with slander, accusations, and vile namecalling.
4. No data or evidence contrary to the "prevailing opinions" are accepted, considered, or discussed; and in fact are rejected outright in most instances.
5. That the continued calls for armed insurrection, military or paramilitary involvement, impeachements of politicians and judges, and death threats are embarassing, stupid, shortsighted, doomed to failure, and contrary to most if not all conservative thought prior to this case, as well as damaging in the extreme to FR and the conservative movement as a whole.
6. That such emotional, hyperbolic, and propaganda-driven hysteria is in fact contrary to all conservatives USED to stand for.
7. That the holding up of swastika and other Nazi imagery towards the police and the Bushes, the use of children as political props, and the disruption of the peace at the Woodside Hospice can only reflect badly on conservatives in general, and should be discouraged.
8. That the pursuit of this issue to the exclusion of all others by the GOP has damaged, perhaps beyond repair, the pursuit of other important issues as well as the reputation of the GOP, FR, and conservatism.
The WPPFF is NOT of one mind as to the case of TS or its correct outcome. In fact, wide disagreement exists within our little group. However, we are united in our wish that reason and sanity be respected in the discussion, as well as the rights of all parties involved or participating. We wish to discuss this as adults and intellectuals, as conservatives and as FRiends, not as children screaming past each other on some playground of hysteria. We wish for facts and evidence to be provided, discussed reasonably, and considered fairly.
We reject all accusations of Naziism, "death cultism", or other slander as methods of debate. We reject the practice of "spamming" multiple threads, of posting unending vanities, and the posting of propaganda and calls for violence. We reject, in fact, all unseemly and childish behavior which has come to characterize this case on FR.
We DO invite others to come and reasonably discuss the issue. We have no problem with FReepers who wish to debate in a rational and fair manner, and with due respect for their fellow FReepers. We have NO problem with those whose views are formed by religion; however we reject "preaching" or "being beaten with a Bible" as legitemite debate tactics. Not all of us are Believers, and such tactics only cheapen the source.
If a FReeper finds this an acceptable meansd to discuss this and other issues, they are welcome to join in and participate. Those who find pleasure in attacks, flame-baiting, slander, stalking, and personal atacks will be ignored, and their egos will go unfed.
We assume this thread to be a zone of sanity in an overheated atmosphere. Thus, a general amnesty is in effect. If posters conduct themselves within the guidlines above, we will be happy to discuss and debate with you. If a poster wishes to apologize for past slips of the tongue, or for possible "over-the-top" statements to another, it will be graciously accepted, and your company welcome.
Please bring a sense of humor; we feel that too many have been taking themselves too seriously lately.
Let the discussion begin!
Signed,
The WPPFF, aka The Wild Turkeys, aka the Coalition of the Sane.
No I do not think we should give the state the power, but unfortunately the people of Florida did. And I am against the government interference in any way. The parents and husband chose to involve the courts in this. Terri was caught in the middle of a very ugly feud.
First, I'm sorry I got you angry. That wasn't my intention.
I think you know that I can't discount there being another case with the same circumstances as Terri. I doubt there is one at this moment, but it is inevitable that there will be under current law.
I agree.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Christians the world over grieve over the loss of a righteous man.
___________________
This was a truly great man. Jews also grieve the loss of a Pope who reached out to them in friendship and kinship.
As for the islamics, I cannot say.
No, I don't actually. The constitution is pretty clear. Where the state is ana actor 14 A applies and 14A doesn't distinguish between criminal and non criminal as to rights. I know the courts disagree with my rewsoning but I could care less. They disagree with my reasoning on a number of things such as abortion, property rights and children. Doesn't change my opinion at all.
In Florida, end-of-life issues are handled at the probate court level, and there are no juries in probate courts in Florida.
Probate judges are ill equipped to make life and death decisions. Those decisions are rightfully the families but if there is disagrrement like here, a probate Judge should not be ordering the death of a citizen.The law in those states should be changed.
Again, the screaming at the judges here is misplaced.
Nobodys screaming and I don't understand why you claim I am. It's not an argument, it's simply smoke.
The focus should be on the Florida legislature. Wanna bet that, a year from now, nothing, absolutely nothing, will have been done to the law that allowed this horrible turn of events?
Sure, how much?
Me either but I am surprised at the number of people who do. I think after things calm down and look at it rationally the states powers will be curtailed in cases like these. At least, I hope so.
And I am against the government interference in any way. The parents and husband chose to involve the courts in this. Terri was caught in the middle of a very ugly feud.
In any way? Let's test that thesis. If your state condemns you to death, will you forgo federal judicial review?
Oh okay. What I meant{and I have a very hyper grandson here as an excuse for not being specific} was that I am against the government's interference in a personal decision, such as life support. But until everyone has their wishes in clear and specific wording and in writing and witnessed by objective parties, and my cat learns to feed itself, I'm afraid this is going to happen. Any ideas on a remedy? Any ideas on the cat thing would be good too.
So, it was not irrelevant but right on point.
I have said too, that the judges might have changed their minds if Michael died, for instance. But it would not have been legally consistent.
It would have been consistent with Florida law. If MS was found conflicted and removed which he should have been, his testimony becomes garbage. The initial finding is set aside and the new guradian, be it he parents or siblings, simply withdraws the claim.
Tell that to Scalia.
Be my pleasure. Any time, any place. The problem is the robes are so isolated from everyman, like me and my work boots, that they are impossible to access. We can't even watch or hear their cases real time. A power onto themselves, both left and right. But don't get me wrong, I admire Scalia, I just don't always agree with him. And no, that doesn't mean I think I am his equal in American jurisprudence.
And I hope you aren't saying all that "due process" should be required if it is written or otherwise truly clear and convincing.
I didn't say that so your hopes have been realized.
I hope like heck the state enforces my known wishes without putting them off and putting my family thru hell just to satisfy "due process", no matter who disputes them.
Well, I've changed my living will to state clearly and succinctly that no court of any jurisdiction decides my fate, that decision is and will be properly up to my wife, if she survives me, or by a preponderance of the members of my family.
Only one. Absent a written living will, the state should err on the side of life.
I want to thank you for an excellent and civil debate. I know many people react from their hearts on such issues, understandably. It forces us to face our own and our loved one's mortality. But I also think some posters have acted out of hysteria. Or perhaps, as some have suggested, they are trolls trying to divide us. I hope it is the latter.
I agree
At what point and in which situations do you feel the state should become involved?
But once a state has ordered the death of a citizen, then 14A applies and that citizen is entitled to all the due process that the deadenders get.
The person would then be forced to live, no matter the pain, until the state allows you to die, or God in is his mercy finally takes you.
Just what the doctor ordered, so to speak.
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