MANIFESTO OF THE WPPFF/WILD TURKEYS/COALITION OF THE SANE

Me. | 29MARCH05 | Long Cut

[Long Cut]

We, the Witness Protection Program For Freepers, aka the Wild Turkeys, aka the Coalition of the Sane, have through mutual discussion and rigourous thought, determined that:

1. The discussion threads regarding Terri Schiavo (hereafter referred to as "TS") have become too full of innuendo, rumormongering, hyperbole, hysteria, namecalling, paranoia, and general poor behavior to warrant participation.

2. Said threads have degenerated into "echo chambers", wherein the same, common thoughts are continually posted again and again, and the same old disreputable, unconfirmed and/or false urban myths are propagated.

3. Anyone who joins in said theads with alternative viewpoints to the most extreme posts are routinely driven away with slander, accusations, and vile namecalling.

4. No data or evidence contrary to the "prevailing opinions" are accepted, considered, or discussed; and in fact are rejected outright in most instances.

5. That the continued calls for armed insurrection, military or paramilitary involvement, impeachements of politicians and judges, and death threats are embarassing, stupid, shortsighted, doomed to failure, and contrary to most if not all conservative thought prior to this case, as well as damaging in the extreme to FR and the conservative movement as a whole.

6. That such emotional, hyperbolic, and propaganda-driven hysteria is in fact contrary to all conservatives USED to stand for.

7. That the holding up of swastika and other Nazi imagery towards the police and the Bushes, the use of children as political props, and the disruption of the peace at the Woodside Hospice can only reflect badly on conservatives in general, and should be discouraged.

8. That the pursuit of this issue to the exclusion of all others by the GOP has damaged, perhaps beyond repair, the pursuit of other important issues as well as the reputation of the GOP, FR, and conservatism.

The WPPFF is NOT of one mind as to the case of TS or its correct outcome. In fact, wide disagreement exists within our little group. However, we are united in our wish that reason and sanity be respected in the discussion, as well as the rights of all parties involved or participating. We wish to discuss this as adults and intellectuals, as conservatives and as FRiends, not as children screaming past each other on some playground of hysteria. We wish for facts and evidence to be provided, discussed reasonably, and considered fairly.

We reject all accusations of Naziism, "death cultism", or other slander as methods of debate. We reject the practice of "spamming" multiple threads, of posting unending vanities, and the posting of propaganda and calls for violence. We reject, in fact, all unseemly and childish behavior which has come to characterize this case on FR.

We DO invite others to come and reasonably discuss the issue. We have no problem with FReepers who wish to debate in a rational and fair manner, and with due respect for their fellow FReepers. We have NO problem with those whose views are formed by religion; however we reject "preaching" or "being beaten with a Bible" as legitemite debate tactics. Not all of us are Believers, and such tactics only cheapen the source.

If a FReeper finds this an acceptable meansd to discuss this and other issues, they are welcome to join in and participate. Those who find pleasure in attacks, flame-baiting, slander, stalking, and personal atacks will be ignored, and their egos will go unfed.

We assume this thread to be a zone of sanity in an overheated atmosphere. Thus, a general amnesty is in effect. If posters conduct themselves within the guidlines above, we will be happy to discuss and debate with you. If a poster wishes to apologize for past slips of the tongue, or for possible "over-the-top" statements to another, it will be graciously accepted, and your company welcome.

Please bring a sense of humor; we feel that too many have been taking themselves too seriously lately.

Let the discussion begin!

Signed,

The WPPFF, aka The Wild Turkeys, aka the Coalition of the Sane.

[Long Cut]

And yet, none of these nurses thought to swear an oath, appear in court, testify under said oath, or subject themselves to cross-examination. And they chose to make themselves known both after the hearings were over, AND after the case recieved national scrutiny.

Now, why would they do that? I mean, with a woman's life at stake, why would they NOT testify? The only thing that springs to mind is, of course, fear of a perjury charge when their stories get shot to hell on cross.

[Liberty Valance]

Not sure but, I think either I've got gas or i'm having a flashback to the grabacious period. Is there a bicarbonate of soda in the house?







:o)~ Baby, the rain must fall ~

[MEG33]

More of your perfect humor?

[Trinity_Tx]

Before you get the wrong idea - I did not support the decision to pull her tube under the circumstances - I have serious problems with the way a number of things were done... but, for the record:


"A large majority of the nurses who cared for her said she was aware and did react to her environment."

No, she has had hundreds of nurses over the last 15 years. 1 nurse and 3 assistants said the things you keep hearing.

But they lack credibility.

One, Trudy Capone, had a personal relationship with Michael that ended badly.

Another, the most cited, was Carla Iyer, who got fired from her job there, she says, because she reported all this to the police.
She made claims so outrageous no one could objectively believe her. She's the one who said Michael was going around saying "when's the b1tch gonna die" "I'm gonna be so rich", was trying to kill her with insulin, saying "Mommy" "help me" "pain", sat at the nurses desk and visited with them and visiting families, etc etc...

Problem was, she said she was calling the Schindlers and telling them these things at night when they were happening.

But, the Schindlers had been trying to get custody from Michael all those years, and never said a word about her or those things. They didn't even mention her or ask for her to be called at the 2001 trial, or claim Terri could say things, or that Michael was abusing her. Then, suddenly a few years ago, Pat Anderson and hubby go out come up with this story by Carla (and the others) in an affidavit.

As Greer put it, her story involved a conspiracy between, not only Michael, the doctors, all the other nurses, and the police, but the Schindlers themselves, who surely should have said something had they been told at the time that he was doing these things.

Even the guardian ad litem, Pearse, who sided with her parents and said he didn't trust Michael's motives, openly scoffed at Carla Iyer sitting right next to her on Greta the other night. He said that in his year as her guardian (98-99) , he could never elicit a response from Terri, never found a nurse who could (the other nurses told him the smiles and vocalizations happened at random, even when Terri was alone).

All he heard from the nurses was that Michael was indeed a pain in the butt, but only because he got so angry if anything wasn't done just perfectly for Terri. He wanted special treatment, like daily baths, and being dressed and made up early in the day. He would get very angry if her bed was dirty or smelled of urine.

He said he knew Michael made enemies of nurses for that reason. Once they even took out a restraining order on him.

Heidi Law said Teri was constantly talking and interacting at a level even her parents didn't claim.

You talk about court. 2 out of 5 doctors said the same thing in court.

Every doctor who examined Terri over 15 years said she was PVS - her multiple EEGs from '90 thru 2002 showed no cerebral activity, or at the best interpretation, "severely abnormal activity typical of PVS".

The 2 doctors you referred to were Hammesfahr, who I truly hope we can all agree is a kook (see my profile page - white section) by now, and Maxwell, a radiologist who couldn't get his definitions of PVS vs coma straight.

I don't know positively she was PVS or not. But no one could have expected the judges to ignore all those other doctors and side with these two - they were that bad. If anyone is at fault, it is the atty who selected them instead of credible doctors to testify.

(the link to the transcripts are on my page)

[thoughtomator]

Yep, that one's ideal =) Thanks for noticing!

[Trinity_Tx]

LOL Yes... the CodeBlueBlog guy posted 2 blogs

- one saying Terri's CT scan showed bleeding on her brain, a shunt, hydrocephali, and that "OMxG she didn't have any brain atrophy at the time of admittance! It happened after she got there!"

- one saying that the bone scan showed abuse and he'd testify to it in court!

Well, if you look at the multiple doctors pointing out how utterly *asinine* his interpretations are, you'll probably be like me and hope he never winds up interpreting any of your test results. lol I'm not even a Dr and I was shaking my head at the things he was saying.

Here are the direct links - start at the bottom and read backward - it takes a while for the others to show up and him to start backpedaling. Better hurry - he's deleted a few entries already.
CT -
http://codeblueblog.blogs.com/codeblueblog/2005/03/csi_medblogs_co_1.html
Bone - http://codeblueblog.blogs.com/codeblueblog/2005/03/csi_medblogs_co.html

[MEG33]

That is not a Fair Opinion.

[MEG33]

They do not want incivility on either side...One can differ and discuss without inflammarory rhetoric and labels.

One needs to be able to question, explore, investigate and wonder about what the facts are without someone assuming they are promoting pulling the tube..or promoting anything at all.

Many have questions about what to do,who decides, what is right, what is wrong and in this case..how to remedy this kind of situation for other times.Some just wanted a break.

The poster wanted this to be a no flame thread..and it was immediately attacked.

I did not enter into any Schiavo discussion threads as I saw the venom and hurt feelings and thought I would abstain.


I believe we can do better than this. I just found this thread..I believe most sought it out as a respite.
This is my opinion.

[MrDem]

Now, why would they do that? I mean, with a woman's life at stake, why would they NOT testify? The only thing that springs to mind is, of course, fear of a perjury charge when their stories get shot to hell on cross.

Long Knives, that is so stupid. No, maybe some are so brainwashed by the culture of death, having worked at a hospice for a long time, that their consciences are seared and they just don't think what happened was wrong. One nurse did quit and went on the record, stating that if any of the nurses made any conflicting statements, they would be fired. So maybe they also feared loosing their jobs and behaved like 'good germans'.

Your ideology so completely blinds you to any sane, reasonable, thought. A reasonable person would look at all of these eye witness statements and come to the conclusion that the was a great amount of reasonable doubt that this woman was PVS.

[MrDem]

I did not support the decision to pull her tube under the circumstances - I have serious problems with the way a number of things were done...

I don't know positively she was PVS or not.

You really do seem to be one of the few who is not just blindly being on the other side, just to be on the other side.

Now of course, the absolute cardinal rule that applies in any death sentence in our court system, is all of the evidence and testimony must conclude and sum up to 'beyond a reasonable doubt.' I know of no people I consider normal, reasonable, rational, balanced, without some ax to grind, ideology that blinds them, etc. that thinks this case was ''beyond a reasonable doubt', after they read all of the facts.

And when in doubt, you always err on the side of life. That what makes this country different and better than some backwards, barbaric, third world country.

[MEG33]

Thank you for your kind, no flame, thoughts.

[DCPatriot]

Thank you for your kind, no flame, thoughts.

Don't you need a "/sarcasm" tag on that?

[MEG33]

Now, now..This is the no flame zone ;)

[mercy]

>>I don't know positively she was PVS or not. ***But no one could have expected the judges to ignore all those other doctors and side with these two - they were that bad.*** If anyone is at fault, it is the atty who selected them instead of credible doctors to testify.<<

Facts mean nothing to those who would have kept TS strapped to that bed or propped in her chair for the next 30 years if they could have gotten away with it. We are all fodder for their cause. No sacrifice is to great for THEIR cause.

[mercy]

>>And when in doubt, you always err on the side of life. That what makes this country different and better than some backwards, barbaric, third world country.<<

You and yours would always have doubt. You would throw ten thousand families a year into utter chaos for your cause. You would torture any number of suffering invalids who desperately want to be released.

[MrDem]

You and yours would always have doubt. You would throw ten thousand families a year into utter chaos for your cause.

And why is that not happening today? Is it because most major religious groups DO support 'living wills'? A good example is Dr Dobson's group. Note he supports 'living wills'/DNR for people truly on life support or terminally ill.

So please, save the irrational hyperbole for someone else.

[rubofthebrush]

I was so upset about Terries "beautiful" murder that I didn't even read the TS threads during the whole ordeal.The wheat/chaff are being separated.I know the clergy in Germany did criticize this practice.God bless you.

[rubofthebrush]

Our lord has his own "witness protection" that $$$ can't buy. God Bless.

[mercy]

I hereby announce that I am a moderate.

I must be. I used to joke that I was to the right of Gengis Kahn but actually I pretty much meant it. I hated the Left so much ... despised them so totally that to a large part I defined myself by wanting to be as far from the Left as possible.

I embraced ALL conservative principals. Not a one did I eschew. Having fled from the Left in my college years I knew them well. I was intimately informed about their evil ... and the Left IS evil.

I have always agreed with Rush about moderates. Gutless fence sitters with no real principles. But now I are one. I HAVE to be. I will NEVER have truck with the Left and the right wing Taliban religious fanatics that have taken over the GOP scare the bejeebers outa me.

So I'm either a moderate or maybe I should move to Mars.

[tacticalogic]

Zealots of any stripe are dangerous.