Posted on 02/11/2005 10:55:36 AM PST by Jim Robinson
The shot heard around the Internet has been fired on FreeRepublic.com The owner Jim Robinson and his moderators have launched a sniper style purge against members that disagree with the President’s ‘guest worker’ amnesty or support more control of illegal immigration. Free Republic is an amazing tool for those looking for a good debate and news from around the country.
The problem for the administration of the site is that their creation is allowing the participants to learn that the Bush immigration record and plans are shockingly out of line with the views of most conservatives. The management’s answer to this conflict between the majority of conservatives and the influence of the White House on their Web site has become electronic executions and censorship.
Members and readers of Free Republic would be surprised to know that many members of their community have fallen silent on the discussions about illegal immigration lately because free speech is an illusion on FR.com. They are silent because they have been banned from the Web site without warning, cause, or explanation in most cases. For weeks the moderators have been suspending and banning new members that chimed in quickly on the immigration debates.
Now this trend has broadened as the first groups of long-term users were suspended or banned this past week. Although Robinson and his staff removed many members of the Free Republic community in the first few days of the purge, those that religiously support President Bush’s immigration plan, open borders and approve of public benefits for illegal aliens remain on the forum. Those that were banned were the members that wanted more done to control illegal immigration and a strict observance to the President’s Oath of Office.
That isn't why people got reamed. In fact the president hasn't even laid out the specifics of his policy. The anti-immigrant posters went for months unopposed saying such thins as "Bush is a traitor", "Bush sold America out to Fox", "Fox has pictures of Bush that he is blackmailing him with"," "Bush has an open border policy"; and of course all of the patently racists comments about Hispanics; the hyperbole, and anti-Republican party smears.
After months of group-think hysteria, when challenged on their facts the anti-immigrants had so throughly brainwashed themselves that they couldn't handle legitimate debate and so started calling names and insulting anyone who disagreed with them.
It's the same old Buchanan type supporter reacting the same way they did in 2000.
I'm done....this thread feels like Rourke's Drift....otherwise good folks well bloodied.
Bless you dear.
But the only reason why employers have to hire illegals to stay in business is because other businesses do. Its like saying that players have to use steroids to compete. Rather than just accepting the steroids, create a level playing field by testing. The same can be done with immigration. Your approach pretty much just legalizes the illegals.
Let's give American citizens a shot at the jobs first. If they won't take then a very limited number of guest workers cold be employed. When I say limited, I mean about 5,000 not 20 million.
Its not like American citizens didn't fill this jobs before the mass illegal immigration. If wages need to be raised to induce American's to fill these jobs then fine.
I just home and am going to wade through the posts. Had a great time today going to see Christo's gates. The poor boy spent twenty million dollars for something that looks like a country wash linen *LOL* BTW, saw a nice book for you 'Letters of Robert E.Lee' for ten dollars in a used book store.
"In fact the president hasn't even laid out the specifics of his policy."
Actually, he has been President for 4 years and he HAS a policy.
"After months of group-think hysteria, when challenged on their facts the anti-immigrants had so throughly brainwashed themselves that they couldn't handle legitimate debate and so started calling names and insulting anyone who disagreed with them.It's the same old Buchanan type supporter reacting the same way they did in 2000"
Let's see bayou, you just called everybody you disagree with: hysterical, anti-immigrant,brainwashed, name callers (lol),Buchannan supporters...um kettle meet pot, pot kettle.
I would love to see Christo's gates....I bet that saffron flowing is very contrasting.
are the banners up too?
sometimes I miss Manhattan....
Yeah, rl's Dad (god rest him) was more patient with us than anyone had right to be. But he also knew we were pretty much decent kids, and so gave us more latitude. And we had great respsct and admiration for him.
Jim,
Keep on banning racist, intolerant, insulting, and hyper-isolationist posts! For too long the bigots of the Left have lumped responsible Conservatives with the tinfoil types, rude rednecks or N*zi nutjobs.
Constitutional democratic republicans have nothing to do with the European categories of Left and Right--and I'm sick of the (purposeful) confusion promoted by the big government socialists of starboard and port...
Keep on keeping on!!!
God bless you, Jim!
It's great. I'll send you the two pics I took.
I recall gangs headed by guys named Capone, Luciano, Gambino, O'Banion, Weiss, and Lansky.
There dishwashers, gardeners and farmworkers with those surnames as well so the racial undertone won't fly.
I don't think we can close and lock down the border. I also don't think that there are jobs that "Americans just won't do". My own son has done farm work and construction work. Entry level positions that "Americans just won't do" is where the next generation of carpenters, plumbers, electricians, auto mechanics, etc. come from. Not every kid wants to be a lawyer or a doctor when they grow up.
Now, I don't think you're in favor of illegal immigration. I draw that as an inference, because I've never seen the words "I am opposed to illegal immigration" in one of your posts.
So, knowing how angry you become when other FReople infer a view contrary to your core beliefs, how about setting the records straight right here and right now by replying to this post with only the words I am opposed to illegal immigration
We can certainly build a security fence for a very small cost that would reduce illegal immigration to a trickle.
Some jobs are new. In my area almost everyone has a lawn service. They can do so much better job than the amateur home owner, and at $30 a week its worth it not to blow a Saturday or Sunday having to do yard work. Same for having the car hand washed. Americans didn't ever do those jobs on the scale immigrants do.
You don't see as many cars driving around with body damage as thirty years ago because immigrant body men are available to do the work that few citizens did before. Roofs that previously would have been patched are now replaced.
Custom cabinets now are common whereas only the very wealthy had them thirty years ago.
Restaurants have a large staff of professional waiters instead of a couple gum chewing Floes. New homes are built in a fraction of the time they previously were.
Remodeled kitchens, new floors, sprinkler systems, and swimming pool additions are more common today than thirty years ago.
Machine shops and small manufactures are producing products that simply weren't being produced thirty years ago. (If they come we will build it)
These aren't jobs previously done by citizens, these are jobs that simply weren't done before we had the skilled plentiful labor to do them. Take the immigrants away and there are no citizens to replace therm at any wage. The lawns just won't get manicured, kitchens remodeled, car dings repaired, and water glasses kept full.
Your da man Jim! God Bless you and your's.
Maybe, but I would bet you that any poll question that contains the word "illegal" would get at least a 90% response.
"Do you oppose 'illegal' scuba diving?" "Do you oppose 'illegal' snipe hunting?" "Do you oppose 'illegal' food combining?
The fact is that most of us don't know who is legal or illegal, and have no way of distinguishing between behavior that is the result of immigration status and the result of lower income class.
And the majority of the work is being done by unlicensed, uninsured, underqualified people.
Yep, that's bayourod.
As I read this thread and try formulate an opinion based on the arguments presented by all sides, I think FITZ presents the most persuasive case.
The key to stemming the flow of illegal immigrants from Mexico is to make Mexico an attractive and inviting place to live and work, in my opinion.
I believe that when Reagan proposed NAFTA, the goal was to raise the standard of living in Mexico to a self-sustaining level. "A rising tide floats all boats", if you will. Now if it were up to me, which it's not, I would annex territory in Mexico equal to the percentage of working-age citizens illegally working and living in America, then legalize that percentage. If the Mexican ruling class doesn't wish to provide a opportunities to it's people, we have a dandy system by which hard-working people can succeed.
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