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To: M. Espinola
Not taking the pro-Confederate, pro-slavery side during the Civil War does not make one a commie loving Marxist swine.

I didn't say it did -- you're punching out a straw man there. But vilifying the South with a particularistic invective that isolates the South and mauls it as uniquely and especially evil, does make you a fellow-traveler. You need to be careful to decline the offer of a ride downtown, if the guy offering is named Willie Sutton.

Reconstruction and the Jim Crow period are valid subjects which should not be swept under the rug.

Yes they are, as long as they aren't part of a larger theme of ostracizing the South and making Southern whites into social and political pariahs because of their values.

Keep in mind, that the attack isn't motivated by the past, it's motivated by the map of the present. It is not intended to elucidate events of the past or provide new information long overlooked, but to shape the public discourse in the present by delivering a massive ad hominem attack not just on a group, but on a whole section of the country because of its values, which lead its people to resist the leadership of New York and New England and the industrial and so-called "new" classes, which last include the academic Marxists and the media liberals.

David Horowitz's critique of the left and (economic, RiNO) right is correct. Go high enough in the money tree, and all the NGO's and causes and political factions fighting over policy come together. That is what the People of the United States are up against, as nolu chan's post above, about the theft of human rights by corporations (or attempted theft, in some cases), attempts to point out.

It's still about Hamiltonianism and the money-State plexus, on the one hand, and Jeffersonianism and the People on the other. The South is the exponent of Jeffersonianism, and that is why the business interests and people like Eric Foner, who want to grow the State, attack the South.

I can't be plainer than that. As for your agreeing with them, you may do so out of your old Beantown biases, but watch out: lie down with dogs, get up with fleas.

The last thing you want to do is win this argument. If you do, nobody will ever care what you think again. They won't have to.

2,119 posted on 02/06/2005 11:51:21 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: lentulusgracchus
Day markets are closed - 'can we taaaalk?'

...punching out a straw man I love this line :)

Once again you do indeed bring up valid points. In terms of a particularistic invective.. that is hitting below the belt since I for one would equally chasten any 'Northerner' involved in profiteering from slavery either directly or indirectly.

You mentioned Willy Sutton...here he is..

If old Willy had a proven method of breaking thrown peek NY traffic and head 80-90 blocks south to downtown in record time, yea I [might] hop a ride, wouldn't you?

On you're next response regarding my comment on Reconstruction and the Jim Crow..

Maybe it my sense of fair play. When Taiwan was being sold down the river by Jimmy Carter in favour of Red China naturally I backed the ROC 100%. When the overwehemly military might of surrounding Arab nations would & will gang up on tiny Israel, I side with Israel against the bullies. The same during World War II, assist the hapless tortured victims of the Nazis in Europe and in Asia work overtime to defeat invading Japs forces as well. Slavery comes in various forms. I have this thing about defending the little guy against tyrants.

Keep in mind, that the attack isn't motivated by the past, it's motivated by the map of the present.. When the present is a carbon copy of the past what's the difference?

Would you admit the primarily British colonial leadership of New York and New England was paramount in the formation of this nation from the 1600's onward?

David Horowitz's critique of the left should be viewed as an insiders investigative report since he was for a number of years a key leftist player, who woke up, saw the light and is now a leading conservative spokesman exposing the 'enemy within'.

In relation to NGO's (501C3's, foundations, so-called nonprofits) I fully understand the threat radical leftist controlled NGO's poise domestically and on the international level.

Beantown biases, Won the Super bowl! :) ..but watch out: lie down with dogs, get up with fleas.

I have ample supply of flea powder.

2,161 posted on 02/07/2005 1:32:53 PM PST by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free!)
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