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To: Corin Stormhands
There is no other way to look at Calvinism.

Of course there is. The reason the Arminian won't, is because he would then see that his doctrinal system collapses. No one wants to be faced with the fact that he has believed the wrong thing. It's embarrassing, and humbling.

if man cannot repent unless he is regenerated. If the non-elect are not regenerated. Then, the non-elect are prevented from repenting.

Prevention of repentance implies an action on the part of God, such as " Look! There's a man about to repent! Oh no you don't! I won't LET you!" That's ludicrous!

God need do nothing to prevent or keep a man from repentance. Man is naturally capable of that little feat all on his own. In fact, because of that Fall, that is man's natural state, inclination, and desire. True repentance is sorrow for one's sins and a desire to turn from them because they offend a Holy God, NOT because one got caught sinning, and is trying to escape the consequences. The repentance a criminal shows is a false repentance. He's not sorry he did it, he's sorry he got caught. Fallen man is not worried that he has offended a Holy God, because he hates that Holy God.

God's requirement that men everywhere repent is not an implication that they are actually ABLE to do so, it is the basis and proof that God is JUST and RIGHT to condemn them for their sins, because as fallen men, they wouldn't repent EVEN IF THEY COULD. God, as the Sovereign Lord of Creation has every right to state what He requires, without consideration as to whether or not His fallen creatures can obey. He is not obligated to only command that which can be acheived or obeyed. That is the hubris of man, thinking that God must be "fair" on MAN'S terms, when those terms are skewed by the fallen nature and fallen mind of man. Man does not dictate the terms, God does. God doesn't ask for man's input, and will not receive it. Salvation of any individual is God's to choose, not man's to choose or demand.

328 posted on 12/19/2004 8:11:32 AM PST by nobdysfool (Faith in Christ is the evidence of God's choosing, not the cause of it.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Sorry, meant to ping you to this!


329 posted on 12/19/2004 8:12:03 AM PST by nobdysfool (Faith in Christ is the evidence of God's choosing, not the cause of it.)
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To: nobdysfool; Dr. Eckleburg; telder1

***Prevention of repentance implies an action on the part of God, such as " Look! There's a man about to repent! Oh no you don't! I won't LET you!" That's ludicrous!

God need do nothing to prevent or keep a man from repentance.***

I think you've hit the nail on the head here with your overall post. Arminians, rather than face the Biblical implications of their theology would rather misrepresent the Biblical principals that man follows his nature.

Good men bring forth good fruit and bad men bring forth evil fruit.

Because, as you say it is embarrassing and humbling to know that you have wrong theology it is easier to alter the correct theology and point out the flaws in it. This is straw man argumentation.

Of course, we know that God doesn't "prevent" man from repenting. This reveals either a blatant misrepresentation of what the Bible teaches about man's natural state or it is simple ignorance. Man simply will speak out of the abundance of his heart. If his heart is naturally evil, then man will bring forth evil fruit. If man's heart has been changed, then that man will bring forth good fruit. In either case, man is not prevented from repenting. Man is simply acting how he naturally wants to act.

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks. - Luke 6:44-46

The Lord Jesus is perfectly clear. Man speaks and acts according to his nature. Arminians simply deny this. This is why they have invented this thing called "Libertarian free will." The only problem is that this so called "free will" actually destroys man's moral responsibility.

In the service of the Lord,
Christian.


331 posted on 12/19/2004 12:16:46 PM PST by thePilgrim
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To: nobdysfool; thePilgrim; telder1; Corin Stormhands; GLENNS; suzyjaruki; Lexinom; RnMomof7; ...
The three of you have clearly and succinctly articulated the principles behind the error of Arminianism.

I believe any Arminian who repents and possesses the Trinitarian faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior is among the elect because that is what Scripture tells us truly separates the sheep from the wolves.

However, I believe Arminianism is a large portal to all kinds of mischief and error. And that's not good.

It would help if all Christians had a better understanding of the early Gnostics who sought to subvert Christ's teachings and God's sovereignty by re-introducing the Platonic ideal that man already contains perfection within him, if only he can distill it from its earthly, temporal casement.

The idea that man's true "goodness" is confined by the flesh and bones of his humanity is actually a terrible lie that leads to all kinds of philosophical perversions and is at the heart of ALL beliefs other than the strict understanding that ALL men are fallen, but that the elect (all believing Christians) are sanctified by His grace, and thus, are beloved by Him and are blessedly fruitful according to His will.

The Gnostics saw the earth as a confining weight that obscured man's true "inner light."

But the Christian should realize that the earth is God's gift to man, and He has instructed us to use this gift wisely as a means of glorifying His name.

Yet at the same time, the Christian should realize that NOTHING within himself is capable of doing anything God-pleasing unless and until that Christian is first transformed from a fallen, dead sinner and son of Adam into a God-fearing, righteous child of Christ.

And this perfect gift of salvation is not within us fallen creatures to obtain. It is wholly and solely the providence of God's eternal decree.

And thus, unlike the Arminian, a Christian cannot go wrong and lead others into Gnostic error if that Christian attests to God's will alone as the means of all salvation.

Christians would do well to read the history of the early Gnostics. By the grace of God, they will recognize it within the pages of Finney and Arminius and Schuller...

333 posted on 12/19/2004 1:35:51 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: nobdysfool

I hated Calvinism for several years before finally accepting it....I DO NOT like being wrong. It is my sinful nature....I can be a stubborn cuss. But, I gave in because I was wrong. Arminianism is wrong, and I am glad I foud the truth.


338 posted on 12/19/2004 3:15:55 PM PST by rwfromkansas ("War is an ugly thing, but...the decayed feeling...which thinks nothing worth war, is worse." -Mill)
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