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To: nolu chan
Everything you have said about Amendment 4, Section 1 does not matter. It is all in direct conflict with the holding of the U.S. Supreme Court in MILWAUKEE COUNTY v. M.E. WHITE CO., 296 U.S. 268 (1935).

It's easier to just read the Constitution and the Constitution said the Congress can decide how a state proves it's act.

You fail to comprehend the meaning of "proving a State act." It refers to acts of State legislatures. The Act of May 26, 1790 (1 Stat. 122) states "Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the acts of the legislatures of the several states shall be authenticated by having the seal of their respective states affixed thereto: That the records and judicial proceedings of the courts of any state, shall be proved or admitted in any other court within the United States, by the attestation of the clerk, and the seal of the court annexed, if there be a seal, together with a certificate of the judge, chief justice, or presiding magistrate, as the case may be, that the said attestation is in due form."

Secession is an act of the legislature, not something that a clerk simply stamps like a marriage, and the Congress can decide how it is proved.

Currently it is codified at 28 USC 1738 which states, "The Acts of the legislature of any State, Territory, or Possession of the United States, or copies thereof, shall be authenticated by affixing the seal of such State, Territory or Possession thereto. The records and judicial proceedings of any court of any such State, Territory or Possession, or copies thereof, shall be proved or admitted in other courts within the United States and its Territories and Possessions by the attestation of the clerk and seal of the court annexed, if a seal exists, together with a certificate of a judge of the court that the said attestation is in proper form."

Again, secession is an act of the legislature, not a simple marriage that a clerk stamps and it's done.

Fort Pickens is in Florida. Fort Pickens is in the South.

Yep. Where's that armistice at? From what I've read, Lincoln warned them that he was sending food to the soldiers at Sumter, not arms, so the men wouldn't starve. Even objecting to this humanitarian mission was an act of war, let alone firing shots.

247 posted on 03/02/2004 12:59:34 AM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: #3Fan
[#3Fan] From what I've read, Lincoln warned them that he was sending food to the soldiers at Sumter, not arms, so the men wouldn't starve. Even objecting to this humanitarian mission was an act of war, let alone firing shots.

You obviously did not read the OFFICIAL RECORD.

Nobody was starving, they were getting their food delivered from Charleston merchants until April 7, 1861, after the mission to reinforce and hold the fort was sent.

There was no humanitarian mission. The OFFICIAL ORDERS documented in the OFFICIAL RECORD prove that claim is false.


OFFICIAL RECORDS

SOURCE: OFFICIAL RECORDS, OPERATIONS IN CHARLESTON HARBOR, S.C. , Series 1, Volume 1, Page 236.

April 4, 1861
To: Lieut. Col. H.L. Scott, Aide de Camp

This will be handed to you by Captain G.V. Fox, an ex-officer of the Navy. He is charged by authority here, with the command of an expedition (under cover of certain ships of war) whose object is, to reinforce Fort Sumter.

To embark with Captain Fox, you will cause a detachment of recruits, say about 200, to be immediately organized at fort Columbus, with competent number of officers, arms, ammunition, and subsistence, with other necessaries needed for the augmented garrison at Fort Sumter.

Signed: Winfield Scott


There was no food shortage. It is well-documented that Fort Sumter had obtained food from the merchants of Charleston since shortly after Major Anderson moved there. It is well documented by the official records of both sides that the supply of food from the Charleston merchants was not cut off until April 7, 1861. After the South Carolina officials learned of the fleet that was sailing toward them, they cut off the food supply.

UNION CORRESPONDENCE

LINK

[247]

No; 96.

FORT SUMTER, S. C., April 7, 1861.
(Received A. G. 0., April 13.)

Col. L. THOMAS,
Adjutant- General U. S. Army:

COLONEL:

I have the honor to report that we do not see any work going on around us. There was more activity displayed by the guard-

[248]

LINK

boats last night than has been clone for some time. Three of them remained at anchor all night and until after reveille this morning, near the junction of the three channels. You will see by the inclosed letter, just received from Brigadier-General Beauregard that we shall not get any more supplies from the city of Charleston. I hope that they will continne to let us have onr mails as long as we remain. I am glad to be enabled to report that there have been no new cases of dysentery, and that the sick-list only embraces six cases to-day.

I am, colonel, very respectfully, your obedient servant,

ROBERT ANDERSON,
Major, First Artillery, Commanding.

[Inclosure.l

HEADQUARTERS OF THE PROVISIONAL ARMY, C. S.,
Charleston, S. C., April 7, 1861.

Maj. ROBERT ANDERSON,
Commanding at Fort Sumter, Charleston Harbor S. C.:

Sir:

In compliance with orders from the Confederate Government at Montgomery, I have the honor to inform you that, in consequence of the delays and apparent vacillations of the United States Government at Washington relative to the evacuation of Fort Sumter, no further communications for the purposes of supply with this city from the fort and with the fort from this city will be permitted from and after this day. The mails, however, will continue to be transmitted as heretofore, until further instructions from the Confederate Government.

I remain, sir, very respectfully, your obedient servant,

G.T. BEAUREGARD,
Brigadier- General, Commanding..


CONFEDERATE CORRESPONDENCE

LINK

[145]

HEADQUARTERS QUARTERMASTER’S DEPARTMENT,

Charleston, January 19, 1861. Quartermaster- General:

You are ordered to procure and send down with the mails for Fort Sumter to-morrow a sufficient quantity of fresh meat and vegetables to last the garrison of Fort Sumter for forty-eight hours, and inform Major Anderson that you will purchase and take down every day such provisions from the city market as he may indicate.

D.F. JAMISON.


LINK

CHARLESTON, April 8, 1861.

Hon. L. P. WALKER:

Anderson’s provisions stopped yesterday. No answer from him. I am calling out balance of contingent troops.

G.T. BEAUREGARD.



250 posted on 03/02/2004 3:17:44 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: #3Fan
[#3Fan] Secession is an act of the legislature, not something that a clerk simply stamps like a marriage, and the Congress can decide how it is proved.

[#3Fan] Again, secession is an act of the legislature, not a simple marriage that a clerk stamps and it's done.

One look at ANY ordinance of secession and you would have known that it was not an act of the legislature. I do not have time to do your homework for you.

We, the people of the State of Florida, in convention assembled, do solemnly ordain, publish, and declare, That the State of Florida hereby withdraws herself from the confederacy of States existing under the name of the United States of America and from the existing Government of the said States; and that all political connection between her and the Government of said States ought to be, and the same is hereby, totally annulled, and said Union of States dissolved; and the State of Florida is hereby declared a sovereign and independent nation; and that all ordinances heretofore adopted, in so far as they create or recognize said Union, are rescinded; and all laws or parts of laws in force in this State, in so far as they recognize or assent to said Union, be, and they are hereby, repealed.

251 posted on 03/02/2004 3:18:57 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: #3Fan
[#3Fan] It's easier to just read the Constitution and the Constitution said the Congress can decide how a state proves it's act.

What the Constitution says is:

U.S. Const, Art 4, Sec 1, Cl 2:
And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

The general law passed on May 26, 1790 says, "Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the acts of the legislatures of the several states shall be authenticated by having the seal of their respective states affixed thereto: That the records and judicial proceedings of the courts of any state, shall be proved or admitted in any other court within the United States, by the attestation of the clerk, and the seal of the court annexed, if there be a seal, together with a certificate of the judge, chief justice, or presiding magistrate, as the case may be, that the said attestation is in due form."

The Congress did decide how the legislative act of a state is proved.

By choosing adopt your own interpretation of the Constitution, and to ignore legal authorities, the relevant act of Congress, and the relevant decisions of the U.S. Supreme Court, you have left yourself as lost as Jessica Lynch navigating in the desert.

252 posted on 03/02/2004 3:20:14 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: #3Fan
Secession is an act of the legislature

Ummm.... in most cases... no.

256 posted on 03/02/2004 5:06:09 AM PST by Gianni (Everyone's a closet economist.)
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