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An opposing view: Descendant of black Confederate soldier speaks at museum
Thomasville Times-Enterprise ^ | 24 Feb 2004 | Mark Lastinger

Posted on 02/25/2004 11:52:26 AM PST by 4CJ

THOMASVILLE -- Nelson Winbush knows his voice isn't likely to be heard above the crowd that writes American history books. That doesn't keep him from speaking his mind, however.

A 75-year-old black man whose grandfather proudly fought in the gray uniform of the South during the Civil War, Winbush addressed a group of about 40 at the Thomas County Museum of History Sunday afternoon. To say the least, his perspective of the war differs greatly from what is taught in America's classrooms today.

"People have manufactured a lot of mistruths about why the war took place," he said. "It wasn't about slavery. It was about state's rights and tariffs."

Many of Winbush's words were reserved for the Confederate battle flag, which still swirls amid controversy more than 150 years after it originally flew.

"This flag has been lied about more than any flag in the world," Winbush said. "People see it and they don't really know what the hell they are looking at."

About midway through his 90-minute presentation, Winbush's comments were issued with extra force.

"This flag is the one that draped my grandfathers' coffin," he said while clutching it strongly in his left hand. "I would shudder to think what would happen if somebody tried to do something to this particular flag."

Winbush, a retired in educator and Korean War veteran who resides in Kissimmee, Fla., said the Confederate battle flag has been hijacked by racist groups, prompting unwarranted criticism from its detractors.

"This flag had nothing to with the (Ku Klux) klan or skinheads," he said while wearing a necktie that featured the Confederate emblem. "They weren't even heard of then. It was just a guide to follow in battle.

"That's all it ever was."

Winbush said Confederate soldiers started using the flag with the St. Andrews cross because its original flag closely resembled the U.S. flag. The first Confederate flag's blue patch in an upper corner and its alternating red and white stripes caused confusion on the battlefield, he said.

"Neither side (of the debate) knows what the flag represents," Winbush said. "It's dumb and dumber. You can turn it around, but it's still two dumb bunches.

"If you learn anything else today, don't be dumb."

Winbush learned about the Civil War at the knee of Louis Napoleon Nelson, who joined his master and one of his master's sons in battle voluntarily when he was 14. Nelson saw combat at Lookout Mountain, Bryson's Crossroads, Shiloh and Vicksburg.

"At Shiloh, my grandfather served as a chaplain even though he couldn't read or write," said Winbush, who bolstered his points with photos, letters and newspapers that used to belong to his grandfather. "I've never heard of a black Yankee holding such an office, so that makes him a little different."

Winbush said his grandfather, who also served as a "scavenger," never had any qualms about fighting for the South. He had plenty of chances to make a break for freedom, but never did. He attended 39 Confederate reunions, the final one in 1934. A Sons of Confederate Veterans Chapter in Tennessee is named after him.

"People ask why a black person would fight for the Confederacy. (It was) for the same damned reason a white Southerner did," Winbush explained.

Winbush said Southern blacks and whites often lived together as extended families., adding slaves and slave owners were outraged when Union forces raided their homes. He said history books rarely make mention of this.

"When the master and his older sons went to war, who did he leave his families with?" asked Winbush, who grandfather remained with his former owners 12 years after the hostilities ended. "It was with the slaves. Were his (family members) mistreated? Hell, no!

"They were protected."

Winbush said more than 90,000 blacks, some of them free, fought for the Confederacy. He has said in the past that he would have fought by his grandfather's side in the 7th Tennessee Cavalry led by Gen. Nathan Bedford Forest.

After his presentation, Winbush opened the floor for questions. Two black women, including Jule Anderson of the Thomas County Historical Society Board of Directors, told him the Confederate battle flag made them uncomfortable.

Winbush, who said he started speaking out about the Civil War in 1992 after growing weary of what he dubbed "political correctness," was also challenged about his opinions.

"I have difficulty in trying to apply today's standards with what happened 150 years ago," he said to Anderson's tearful comments. "...That's what a lot of people are attempting to do. I'm just presenting facts, not as I read from some book where somebody thought that they understood. This came straight from the horse's mouth, and I refute anybody to deny that."

Thomas County Historical Society Board member and SVC member Chip Bragg moved in to close the session after it took a political turn when a white audience member voiced disapproval of the use of Confederate symbols on the state flag. Georgia voters are set to go to the polls a week from today to pick a flag to replace the 1956 version, which featured the St. Andrew's cross prominently.

"Those of us who are serious about our Confederate heritage are very unhappy with the trivialization of Confederate symbols and their misuse," he said. "Part of what we are trying to do is correct this misunderstanding."


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: dixie; dixielist
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To: Gianni
I had a friend from Indiana who lived down the hall from me in college. This was 12 years ago, and he often talked about how some rural towns were still dominated by the Klan.

It's a stereotype that "southerners" are racists, or the only racists. The Dr. referenced above had problems obtaining medical treatment in Paris due to his color.

And no one ever wants to read about some African villages being 3/4 slaves.

861 posted on 03/17/2004 2:09:02 PM PST by 4CJ (||) OUR sins put Him on that cross - HIS love for us kept Him there. I approve this message. (||)
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To: #3Fan; Gianni
[#3Fan] If Illinois was unwilling to follow Article IV, they could just make their own trade alliance with Canada for prescription drugs

U.S. Const, Article 1, Section 10, Clause 3

"No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, ... enter into any Agreement or Compact ... with a foreign Power...."

862 posted on 03/17/2004 11:29:42 PM PST by nolu chan
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To: #3Fan
[#3Fan] If Illinois was unwilling to follow Article IV, they could just make their own trade alliance with Canada for prescription drugs

DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH & HUMAN SERVICES
Public Health Service
Food and Drug Administration
Rockville, MD 20857

Jan 22, 2004

WARNING LETTER

Dear Messrs. Curb, Lanham, and Strickland:

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has learned that you are assisting United States (U.S.) consumers in obtaining prescription drugs from Canada through Expedite-Rx, SPC Global Technologies, Ltd., and Employer Health Options, Inc. Specifically, you are running a program that facilitates the importation of prescription drugs from Canada for U.S. consumers. Consumers who are members of your program send paperwork, including the "Initial Prescription Order Form," "Medical History Form," "Customer Agreement Form," and a U.S. prescription to Expedite-Rx by mail or facsimile. Expedite-Rx then sends the prescription to a Canadian pharmacy. This Canadian pharmacy arranges for a corresponding prescription from a medical doctor in Canada and then fills the prescription and sends the drug directly to the U.S. consumer. As discussed in greater detail below, your actions violate the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act or the Act), 21 U.S.C. § 301 et seq. Your actions also present a significant risk to public health, and you mislead the public about the safety of the drugs that are obtained through your program.

Legal Violations

Virtually every shipment of prescription drugs from Canadian pharmacies to consumers in the U.S. violates the Act. Even if a prescription drug is approved in the U.S., if the drug is also originally manufactured in the U.S., it is a violation of the Act for anyone other than the U.S. manufacturer to import the drug into the U.S. (21 U.S.C. § 381(d)(l)). Moreover, drugs shipped into the U.S. from Canadian pharmacies are generally unapproved (21 U.S.C. § 355), labeled incorrectly (21 U.S.C. § 352), and/or dispensed without a valid prescription (21 U.S.C. § 353(b)(l)). Thus, their shipment into the U.S. from Canada violates the Act. See, e.g.. 21 U.S.C. 331(a), (d), (t).

The reason that Canadian or other foreign versions of U.S.-approved drugs are generally considered unapproved in the U.S. is that FDA approvals are manufacturer-specific, product-specific, and include many requirements relating to the product, such as manufacturing location, formulation, source and specifications of active ingredients, processing methods, manufacturing controls, container/closure system, and appearance. 21 C.F.R. § 314.50. Frequently, drugs sold outside of the U.S. are not manufactured by a firm that has FDA approval for that drug. Moreover, even if the manufacturer has FDA approval for a drug, the version produced for foreign markets usually does not meet all of the requirements of the U.S. approval, and thus it is considered to be unapproved. 21 U.S.C. § 355.

In order to ensure compliance with the Act when they are involved in shipping prescription drugs to consumers in the U.S., businesses and individuals must ensure, among other things that the drugs sold: (1) are FDA-approved; (2) if manufactured in the U.S., are imported only by the manufacturer; and (3) comply with an applicable FDA approval in all respects, including manufacturing location, formulation, source and specifications of active ingredients, processing methods, manufacturing controls, container/closure system, and appearance. 21 C.F.R. § 314.50. The businesses and individuals must also ensure that each drug meets all U.S. labeling requirements. 21 U.S.C. § 352. The drug must also be dispensed by a pharmacist pursuant to a valid prescription. 21 U.S.C. § 353(b)(l).

Practically speaking, it is extremely unlikely that a pharmacy could ensure that all of the applicable legal requirements are met. Consequently, almost every time an individual or business ships a prescription drug from Canada or brings that drug illegally into the U.S. for overnight shipment to a U.S. consumer, the individual or business shipping the drug violates the FD&C Act. Moreover, individuals and businesses, such as Expedite-Rx, SPC Global Technologies, Ltd, and Employer Health Options, Inc., and their responsible personnel that cause those shipments also violate the Act. 21 U.S.C. § 331 ("The following acts and the causing thereof are hereby prohibited..."). The Expedite-Rx web site, www.expedite-rx.com, misleadingly states, "In a published statement a FDA spokesman said that the federal government 'has not enforced any existing laws affecting such importation in years', and that it has instead taken 'a compassionate approach (to enforcement) (that is) intended to help people with serious health problems'." This is misleading. Under FDA's Personal Importation Policy, as a matter of enforcement discretion in certain defined circumstances, FDA allows consumers to import otherwise illegal drugs. However, this policy is not intended to allow importation of foreign versions of drugs for which there is a FDA-approved version. This is especially true when the foreign versions of such drugs are being "commercialized" to U.S. citizens through operations such as yours.

Moreover, the policy simply describes the agency's enforcement priorities. It does not change the law, and it does not give a license to persons to import or export illegal drugs into the U.S. See FDA Regulatory Procedures Manual, Chapter 9, Subchapter: Coverage of Personal Importations.

FDA's Public Health Concerns and Your Misleading Statements about Drug Safety

Expedite-Rx's web site also makes misleading assurances to consumers about the safety of the drugs purchased through the program. For example, on your website's page, Why Canada?, you make the claim that "Canada's patient-protective drug controls are most like those in the U.S." In addition, on your website's page, "Don't Be Intimidated?," you claim "[virtually all the drug brands are of common manufacture ...."

These statements could give the impression to consumers that drugs obtained through this program are the same as those approved in the U.S., and therefore, they present no safety risks. However, prescription drugs purchased from foreign countries generally are not FDA-approved, do not meet FDA standards, and are not the same as the drugs purchased in the U.S. Drugs from foreign countries do not have the same assurance of safety as drugs actually regulated by the FDA. Because the medications are not subject to FDA's safety oversight, they could be outdated, contaminated, counterfeit or contain too much or too little of the active ingredient. In addition, foreign dispensers of drugs to American citizens may provide patients with incorrect medications, incorrect strengths, medicines that should not be used in people with certain conditions or with other medications, or medications without proper directions for use. These risks are exacerbated by the fact that many of the products you are soliciting U.S. consumers to buy are indicated for serious medical conditions.

FDA is also very concerned about the importation of prescription drugs from Canada and other foreign countries because, in our experience, many drugs obtained from foreign sources that purport or appear to be the same as U.S.-approved prescription drugs are, in fact, of unknown quality. Recent examples of counterfeit products entering the U.S. marketplace also raise substantial safety questions about drugs from foreign countries. Moreover, there is a possibility that drugs, which come to U.S. consumers through Canada or purport to be from Canada may not actually be Canadian drugs, hi short, drugs delivered to the American public from foreign countries may be very different from products approved by FDA and may not be safe and effective. For all of these reasons, FDA believes that operations such as yours expose the public to significant potential health risks.

Action Needed

This letter is not intended to identify all of the ways in which your activities violate U.S. law. It is your responsibility to ensure that you are in compliance with applicable legal requirements.

Please notify this office in writing within fifteen (15) working days of your receipt of this letter of the specific steps you will take to assure that your operations are in full compliance with U.S. law. Please address your correspondence to Mr. Melvin Szymanski, Compliance Officer, at the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, Center for Drug Evaluation and Research, Office of Compliance, HFD-310, 5600 Fishers Lane, Rockville, MD 20857. If you do not promptly correct your violations, FDA may take legal action without further notice. Possible actions include seizure and/or injunction. Further, federal agencies are advised of the issuance of all Warning Letters about drugs so that they may take this information into account when considering the award of contracts.

Sincerely,
David J. Horowitz, Esq.
Director
Office of Compliance
Center for Drug Evaluation and Research Food and Drug Administration

863 posted on 03/18/2004 12:34:21 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: #3Fan; Gianni
[#3Fan] A 2-minute search revealed this:

Mikey, do you mind sharing that remarkable search criteria?

Did you search on Article 4, Section 1?

Or did you search on full faith and credit?

Or was it, perhaps, proving a state act?

Please Mikey, share the search criteria that brought up http://www.affordabledrugs.il.gov/

864 posted on 03/18/2004 12:42:57 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: nolu chan
U.S. Const, Article 1, Section 10, Clause 3 "No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, ... enter into any Agreement or Compact ... with a foreign Power...."

There's another one that made that secession attempt illegal.

865 posted on 03/18/2004 5:02:30 AM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: nolu chan
Point being?
866 posted on 03/18/2004 5:03:54 AM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: nolu chan
"illinois petition congress" was it. Simple. Comes up #1 on Alta Vista. The only reason it took two minutes was because my first search was "state petition congress" and the results were too general.

You guys are losing your minds if you're now even getting angry about the way I do my searches.

867 posted on 03/18/2004 5:08:33 AM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: #3Fan
[#3Fan] Point being?

Rather than looking for ways to prove their acts, those who follow your legal advice would be looking for a reasonable doubt and trying to prove their innocence.

868 posted on 03/18/2004 5:42:16 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: #3Fan
It only documents that your blather was expressly unconstitutional.
869 posted on 03/18/2004 5:43:56 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: nolu chan
Rather than looking for ways to prove their acts, those who follow your legal advice would be looking for a reasonable doubt and trying to prove their innocence.

How's that?

870 posted on 03/18/2004 6:02:10 AM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: nolu chan
It only documents that your blather was expressly unconstitutional.

It documents Article I and Article IV both apply, as it did in making that secession attempt illegal.

871 posted on 03/18/2004 6:03:52 AM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: #3Fan
This was a coup, not the will of the people. Thugs browbeating dissent in a convention hall is a coup. It's what makes Article IV so important, we can't break up our country because of a few thugs getting their hands on a gavel. Secession must be proven better than that.
872 posted on 03/18/2004 6:08:20 AM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: #3Fan
We don't cheerlead each other. When truth is on our side, there's no need to engage in high-fiving or ganging up on those that disagree.

You don't hang around these threads much, do you?

873 posted on 03/18/2004 8:27:06 AM PST by Gianni (Sarcasm, the other white meat.)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
All I can say is:

Bless their enlightened Northern hearts.

874 posted on 03/18/2004 8:27:41 AM PST by Gianni (Sarcasm, the other white meat.)
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To: #3Fan
Secession is not entry into a foreign compact or alliance.
875 posted on 03/18/2004 8:30:38 AM PST by Gianni (Sarcasm, the other white meat.)
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To: Gianni
Bless their enlightened Northern hearts.

ROTF! A true Southerner!

876 posted on 03/18/2004 8:41:55 AM PST by 4CJ (||) OUR sins put Him on that cross - HIS love for us kept Him there. (||)
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To: #3Fan
Thanks for the link.

Can you, while searching for evidence that any state has interpreted Article IV in the manner prescribed in #3Constitution, also provide examples of a coup in which a the actions taken were subjected to a popular vote by the entire electorate as was done in Texas?

The voting results of your analogous cases would also be nice, if it is not too much trouble. I wonder if most sovereign people acting in their capacity as citizens of a state in participating in a vote approved their coup by as wide a margin as did the people of Texas.

877 posted on 03/18/2004 8:44:05 AM PST by Gianni (Sarcasm, the other white meat.)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
A man can't help where he's born.

Supposed to hit 50 today... My 9-year old will be complaining for a week because I won't let her wear shorts and play outside!

878 posted on 03/18/2004 8:45:29 AM PST by Gianni (Sarcasm, the other white meat.)
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To: Gianni
Supposed to hit 50 today... My 9-year old will be complaining for a week because I won't let her wear shorts and play outside!

I remember one spring day while I was in college it got bitterly cold - almost 65° (it kept the co-eds from laying out, all the guys were bitter ;o)

879 posted on 03/18/2004 9:00:29 AM PST by 4CJ (||) OUR sins put Him on that cross - HIS love for us kept Him there. (||)
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To: Gianni
You don't hang around these threads much, do you?

What are you talking about? You've been ganging up and posting personal attacks and mocking posts the whole way. It's been three against me the whole way, sometimes six vs one. If truth were on your side that would be all you need. Since it's not you guys have to keep making up new ways to attack simple truth.

880 posted on 03/18/2004 9:04:01 AM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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