Posted on 02/25/2004 11:52:26 AM PST by 4CJ
THOMASVILLE -- Nelson Winbush knows his voice isn't likely to be heard above the crowd that writes American history books. That doesn't keep him from speaking his mind, however.
A 75-year-old black man whose grandfather proudly fought in the gray uniform of the South during the Civil War, Winbush addressed a group of about 40 at the Thomas County Museum of History Sunday afternoon. To say the least, his perspective of the war differs greatly from what is taught in America's classrooms today.
"People have manufactured a lot of mistruths about why the war took place," he said. "It wasn't about slavery. It was about state's rights and tariffs."
Many of Winbush's words were reserved for the Confederate battle flag, which still swirls amid controversy more than 150 years after it originally flew.
"This flag has been lied about more than any flag in the world," Winbush said. "People see it and they don't really know what the hell they are looking at."
About midway through his 90-minute presentation, Winbush's comments were issued with extra force.
"This flag is the one that draped my grandfathers' coffin," he said while clutching it strongly in his left hand. "I would shudder to think what would happen if somebody tried to do something to this particular flag."
Winbush, a retired in educator and Korean War veteran who resides in Kissimmee, Fla., said the Confederate battle flag has been hijacked by racist groups, prompting unwarranted criticism from its detractors.
"This flag had nothing to with the (Ku Klux) klan or skinheads," he said while wearing a necktie that featured the Confederate emblem. "They weren't even heard of then. It was just a guide to follow in battle.
"That's all it ever was."
Winbush said Confederate soldiers started using the flag with the St. Andrews cross because its original flag closely resembled the U.S. flag. The first Confederate flag's blue patch in an upper corner and its alternating red and white stripes caused confusion on the battlefield, he said.
"Neither side (of the debate) knows what the flag represents," Winbush said. "It's dumb and dumber. You can turn it around, but it's still two dumb bunches.
"If you learn anything else today, don't be dumb."
Winbush learned about the Civil War at the knee of Louis Napoleon Nelson, who joined his master and one of his master's sons in battle voluntarily when he was 14. Nelson saw combat at Lookout Mountain, Bryson's Crossroads, Shiloh and Vicksburg.
"At Shiloh, my grandfather served as a chaplain even though he couldn't read or write," said Winbush, who bolstered his points with photos, letters and newspapers that used to belong to his grandfather. "I've never heard of a black Yankee holding such an office, so that makes him a little different."
Winbush said his grandfather, who also served as a "scavenger," never had any qualms about fighting for the South. He had plenty of chances to make a break for freedom, but never did. He attended 39 Confederate reunions, the final one in 1934. A Sons of Confederate Veterans Chapter in Tennessee is named after him.
"People ask why a black person would fight for the Confederacy. (It was) for the same damned reason a white Southerner did," Winbush explained.
Winbush said Southern blacks and whites often lived together as extended families., adding slaves and slave owners were outraged when Union forces raided their homes. He said history books rarely make mention of this.
"When the master and his older sons went to war, who did he leave his families with?" asked Winbush, who grandfather remained with his former owners 12 years after the hostilities ended. "It was with the slaves. Were his (family members) mistreated? Hell, no!
"They were protected."
Winbush said more than 90,000 blacks, some of them free, fought for the Confederacy. He has said in the past that he would have fought by his grandfather's side in the 7th Tennessee Cavalry led by Gen. Nathan Bedford Forest.
After his presentation, Winbush opened the floor for questions. Two black women, including Jule Anderson of the Thomas County Historical Society Board of Directors, told him the Confederate battle flag made them uncomfortable.
Winbush, who said he started speaking out about the Civil War in 1992 after growing weary of what he dubbed "political correctness," was also challenged about his opinions.
"I have difficulty in trying to apply today's standards with what happened 150 years ago," he said to Anderson's tearful comments. "...That's what a lot of people are attempting to do. I'm just presenting facts, not as I read from some book where somebody thought that they understood. This came straight from the horse's mouth, and I refute anybody to deny that."
Thomas County Historical Society Board member and SVC member Chip Bragg moved in to close the session after it took a political turn when a white audience member voiced disapproval of the use of Confederate symbols on the state flag. Georgia voters are set to go to the polls a week from today to pick a flag to replace the 1956 version, which featured the St. Andrew's cross prominently.
"Those of us who are serious about our Confederate heritage are very unhappy with the trivialization of Confederate symbols and their misuse," he said. "Part of what we are trying to do is correct this misunderstanding."
taxes were lower, but Lincoln was hell bent on raising them.
we punished those that didn't like us.
taxes were lower, but Lincoln was hell bent on raising them.
we punished those that didn't like us.
Duh! Tommy Thompson isn't Caesar! It has to be ran through the Congress. Indiana, Missouri, and Kentucky will have concerns about this because they'll likely lose business. Here is "the people" signing the petition to Congress from the link:
If you think Congress and the FDA should allow Americans to purchase safely imported prescription drugs from Canada, please sign our electronic petition.
Please provide an example which meets the criteria that you set forth.
It's a perfect example. You just choose to ignore anything that proves you wrong, a common trait of neoconfederates. Remember how you guys were ignoring the stories of Confederate rapes against their own women.
Reagan did too to defeat the Soviets, Lincoln did to defeat the rebels.
taxes were lower, but Lincoln was hell bent on raising them.
Reagan increased tariffs also to save Harley Davidson.
we punished those that didn't like us.
They attacked us.
Stat. 122 (1790) provides that states shall prove public Acts by having the seal of their respective states affixed thereto. The affixed state seal proved the Act of secession lawful. On the other hand, it proved that the acts of your armed Viking gunships, laying down a naval coastal bombardment, were unlawful. The absence of a state seal on your Viking gunships establishes that their Acts were never proved and were undeniably unlawful. I have seen no example of any armed Viking gunship with the requisite state seal.
Gradually the newspapers are revealing this close connection between Republicanism and the Klan in the North: in such States as Maine, New York, and Indiana the influence is profound.
-- Lucy Shelton Stewart, The Reward of Patriotism, 1930, p. 449.
YOUR source proclaims Republicanism to have a legacy of oozing hate, being the lackey of the KKK in northern states such as Maine, New York and Indiana. This disgrace is suppressed no longer. Finally, the Republican inability to capture Black votes is explained. Good catch!
No problem ;o) Better that than his fingers in his ears.
According to the superintendent of Receiving Hospital in 1926, the institution did not have a policy for segregating black and white patients. But he admitted to shifting patients around whenever he received a great number of complaints from white patients, most of which came from northern whites.Say it ain't so!
Richard W. Thomas, Life for Us Is What We Make It: Building Black Community in Detroit, 1915–1945, Bloomington, IN: Indiana University Press (1992), p. 135
In June of 1925, Dr. Alex L. Turner bought a nice expensive brick house on the northwest side of Detroit in the all-white Grand River Avenue district. Like many other black professionals, Turner and his family saw this move as a long awaited opportunity to escape the congested living conditions of the black ghettoes. The Turner family had been in their new house only a few hours when they were forced to leave by a crowd of whites 5,000 strong, hooting and throwing stones at the house. White men, women, and children participated in this shameless demonstration until the Turners left under police guard. Even as the family were leaving, the white crowd heaped further abuse upon them by stoning their car, breaking the glass and slightly injuring Dr. Turner. He later agreed to sell the house to a group of whites.I'm sure the Turner's misunderstood the crowd's intentions.
Ibid., p. 136
As soon as the word got out that a black family had moved into the neighborhood, crowds of whites gathered around. Soon rocks and stones were hitting the house and breaking windows. Shots rang out from the house, and one white man was dead and another wounded. The police arrived and arrested all ten blacks in the house. At the police station, a white officer asked Dr. Sweet and Mrs. Sweet separately why they had moved into a white neighborhood where they were not wanted. Mrs. Sweet replied, "I think it is my perfect right to move where I please". The Sweets and the other occupants of the house were charged with murder.
Ibid., p. 138
Dang, the Sweets must have misunderstood the Detroit Welcoming Committee.
In March 1940, in a case representative of others, a black family succeeded in purchasing a home in Ferndale, a white suburb in northwest Detroit, but the family left after a Ku Klux Klan (KKK) group burned a ten-foot cross by their house.Must have been an anomoly.
Ibid., p. 142
At this stage, the racial conflict moved to a more volatile level. The night before the move-in, the KKK became involved, and 150 cheering whites burned a cross near the project. Before dawn the mob had swelled to 1,200, many of them openly armed. That morning, as the first black tenants arrived in trucks, lines of white pickets blocked their way. Tempers flared, and before long a riot broke out, with blacks and whites on opposite sides of the street throwing bricks at each other. Whites turned over the blacks' furniture vans. Police armed with tear gas and a riot car made frequent runs into the melee. Scores of people, mainly blacks, were injured by the police, who tended to side with the whites by arresting blacks.Nope, no anomoly.
Ibid., p. 146
International trade is, of course, a power ceded to the fedgov through the Constitution. This is right and proper. How does this relate to the acts of states being proved as stated in Article IV?
Reagan incresed defense spending to defeat the preexisting Soviet menace. Lincoln ran on a platform of higher taxes and "internal improvements."
Reagan increased tariffs also to save Harley Davidson.
Nobody's perfect. Harley was not saved by Reagan increasing tariffs. It was saved by the buyout of the company by it's employees from AMF and a change of paradigm which was instituted as a result thereof. It is one of the great success stories of re-inventing a business. Harley today does not sell motorcycles as a primary business... they sell an image (laughably in this case, the image is that of the American Rebel).
They attacked us.
The facts have all been put forth, and that is not the case. What was that you were saying about winners not crying?
And secession would involve trade also, obviously.
International trade is, of course, a power ceded to the fedgov through the Constitution.
Glad to see you admit that.
This is right and proper. How does this relate to the acts of states being proved as stated in Article IV?
If Illinois was unwilling to follow Article IV, they could just make their own trade alliance with Canada for prescription drugs, they could change the way that Illinoisians drug trade is regulated.
A British jack and a fresh coat of paint over the name qualifies under Article IV. It's in the "plain reading" of the constitution.
Neither of them are to the "fingers in the ears screaming, 'I can't hear you'" stage, and hopefully never get there.
Now, certain posters on this thread, however.....
Lincoln did so to defeat the rebel menace.
Lincoln ran on a platform of higher taxes and "internal improvements."
Reagan raised gas taxes tro improve roads.
Nobody's perfect.
Glad to see you admit that. lol
Harley was not saved by Reagan increasing tariffs.
So says you. They may disagree. Regardless, Reagan did raise tariffs.
It was saved by the buyout of the company by it's employees from AMF and a change of paradigm which was instituted as a result thereof.
The tariff helped also.
It is one of the great success stories of re-inventing a business. Harley today does not sell motorcycles as a primary business... they sell an image (laughably in this case, the image is that of the American Rebel).
Confederates wore black leather?
The facts have all been put forth, and that is not the case.
Star of the West, Fort Sumter. Hell even that Texas document I linked shows they willingly stole federal property and discussed it at the convention.
What was that you were saying about winners not crying?
Who's crying? I'm stating fact. Anytime Bush mentions 9-11, is he crying also? He's not crying because he punished the perps, just as Lincoln did. In both cases we won.
If anyone thought you had clue #1 or that Article IV was applicable, half the brigade would be exchanging attaboys with you. They are not.
Anger management therapy for you. lol
You can tell how far off base you are by the lack of cheerleading from the remainder of the brigade.
We don't cheerlead each other. When truth is on our side, there's no need to engage in high-fiving or ganging up on those that disagree. We can let the truth cheerlead. Fair-minded people will see the truth. It's what allows 10 to defeat 1000.
If anyone thought you had clue #1 or that Article IV was applicable, half the brigade would be exchanging attaboys with you. They are not.
No need to. I don't atta-boy Whiskey Papa or Non, they don't atta-boy me. The truth is on our side and it's all the help we need. It's why your side always engages in personal attacks, ganging up, and cartoon posts excessively, because you're getting no help from the truth. Look at this thread. It's been me against 3, 4, and 5 of you at a time all the way.
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