Posted on 02/25/2004 11:52:26 AM PST by 4CJ
THOMASVILLE -- Nelson Winbush knows his voice isn't likely to be heard above the crowd that writes American history books. That doesn't keep him from speaking his mind, however.
A 75-year-old black man whose grandfather proudly fought in the gray uniform of the South during the Civil War, Winbush addressed a group of about 40 at the Thomas County Museum of History Sunday afternoon. To say the least, his perspective of the war differs greatly from what is taught in America's classrooms today.
"People have manufactured a lot of mistruths about why the war took place," he said. "It wasn't about slavery. It was about state's rights and tariffs."
Many of Winbush's words were reserved for the Confederate battle flag, which still swirls amid controversy more than 150 years after it originally flew.
"This flag has been lied about more than any flag in the world," Winbush said. "People see it and they don't really know what the hell they are looking at."
About midway through his 90-minute presentation, Winbush's comments were issued with extra force.
"This flag is the one that draped my grandfathers' coffin," he said while clutching it strongly in his left hand. "I would shudder to think what would happen if somebody tried to do something to this particular flag."
Winbush, a retired in educator and Korean War veteran who resides in Kissimmee, Fla., said the Confederate battle flag has been hijacked by racist groups, prompting unwarranted criticism from its detractors.
"This flag had nothing to with the (Ku Klux) klan or skinheads," he said while wearing a necktie that featured the Confederate emblem. "They weren't even heard of then. It was just a guide to follow in battle.
"That's all it ever was."
Winbush said Confederate soldiers started using the flag with the St. Andrews cross because its original flag closely resembled the U.S. flag. The first Confederate flag's blue patch in an upper corner and its alternating red and white stripes caused confusion on the battlefield, he said.
"Neither side (of the debate) knows what the flag represents," Winbush said. "It's dumb and dumber. You can turn it around, but it's still two dumb bunches.
"If you learn anything else today, don't be dumb."
Winbush learned about the Civil War at the knee of Louis Napoleon Nelson, who joined his master and one of his master's sons in battle voluntarily when he was 14. Nelson saw combat at Lookout Mountain, Bryson's Crossroads, Shiloh and Vicksburg.
"At Shiloh, my grandfather served as a chaplain even though he couldn't read or write," said Winbush, who bolstered his points with photos, letters and newspapers that used to belong to his grandfather. "I've never heard of a black Yankee holding such an office, so that makes him a little different."
Winbush said his grandfather, who also served as a "scavenger," never had any qualms about fighting for the South. He had plenty of chances to make a break for freedom, but never did. He attended 39 Confederate reunions, the final one in 1934. A Sons of Confederate Veterans Chapter in Tennessee is named after him.
"People ask why a black person would fight for the Confederacy. (It was) for the same damned reason a white Southerner did," Winbush explained.
Winbush said Southern blacks and whites often lived together as extended families., adding slaves and slave owners were outraged when Union forces raided their homes. He said history books rarely make mention of this.
"When the master and his older sons went to war, who did he leave his families with?" asked Winbush, who grandfather remained with his former owners 12 years after the hostilities ended. "It was with the slaves. Were his (family members) mistreated? Hell, no!
"They were protected."
Winbush said more than 90,000 blacks, some of them free, fought for the Confederacy. He has said in the past that he would have fought by his grandfather's side in the 7th Tennessee Cavalry led by Gen. Nathan Bedford Forest.
After his presentation, Winbush opened the floor for questions. Two black women, including Jule Anderson of the Thomas County Historical Society Board of Directors, told him the Confederate battle flag made them uncomfortable.
Winbush, who said he started speaking out about the Civil War in 1992 after growing weary of what he dubbed "political correctness," was also challenged about his opinions.
"I have difficulty in trying to apply today's standards with what happened 150 years ago," he said to Anderson's tearful comments. "...That's what a lot of people are attempting to do. I'm just presenting facts, not as I read from some book where somebody thought that they understood. This came straight from the horse's mouth, and I refute anybody to deny that."
Thomas County Historical Society Board member and SVC member Chip Bragg moved in to close the session after it took a political turn when a white audience member voiced disapproval of the use of Confederate symbols on the state flag. Georgia voters are set to go to the polls a week from today to pick a flag to replace the 1956 version, which featured the St. Andrew's cross prominently.
"Those of us who are serious about our Confederate heritage are very unhappy with the trivialization of Confederate symbols and their misuse," he said. "Part of what we are trying to do is correct this misunderstanding."
His posts are just meant to confuse things. It's like when I posted testimony, he claimed the testimony came from CNN when it didn't. That's all his posts are, long-winded posts not meant for information, but for confusion. If truth were on his side, his posts would not have to be long at all. It's like when he accused me of racism, that post was about 3 computer screens long. If it takes three screens to show I'm a racist, then it means I'm not a racist and that he has to do a lot of literary gymnastics to confuse things to get to his point.
Southern soldiers committed these things at the same rate. Read about Missouri and Tennessee. Forrest's men tortured and killed hundreds of POWs, some were nailed to logs and burned to death, others executed just because they were black. Forrest was a big-time racist, he admitted so himself in his letters to Washburn, saying that the black POWs were "property", not soldiers. And if that wasn't enough, he founded the KKK leading to the lynching of blacks and the murder of Republicans just for the way they voted.
the TRUTH is that TENS of THOUSANDS of WAR CRIMES were committed by the union military & civilan regime, as it was an INTERGAL PART of the lincoln plan to utterly destroy the south.
His plan was to win and that is done by attacking supplies just as we did in WW2 in Germany and Japan. The south wanted war, started war, and got war.
I believe wars are to be won, as Sherman won his battles. It saves lives in the long run.
and he is either too dumb or too dishonest to admit that there IS NO EVIDENCE of INTENTIONAL war crimes committed by ANYONE at Camp Sumpter. not by CPT Wurtz or anyone else on the prison staff.
I've linked the accounts of several witnesses, including confederate guards and Andersonville townsfolk. Wirz was definitely a war criminal.
I believe wars are to be won, as Sherman won his battles. It saves lives in the long run.
and he is either too dumb or too dishonest to admit that there IS NO EVIDENCE of INTENTIONAL war crimes committed by ANYONE at Camp Sumpter. not by CPT Wurtz or anyone else on the prison staff.
I've linked the accounts of several witnesses, including confederate guards and Andersonville townsfolk. Wirz was definitely a war criminal.
A result of the south's refusal to grant furlough and to recognize black POWs as soldiers.
(do you REALLY believe the drivel,tripe & outright LIES that you post??? are you REALLY that STUPID???) but NO CREDIBLE evidence of ANY sort that the problems at Camp Sumpter were INTENTIONAL and/or that these problems were the FAULT of anyone EXCEPT the WAR CRIMINALS of lincoln regime.
Again, I linked all kinds of accounts from the prisoners, the confederate guards themselves, and the Andersonville townsfolk that the prisoners were deliberately murdered.
your posts drip with HATRED & foolishness.
free dixie,sw
you are off your meds AGAIN!
the only TRUTHFUL thing in your post was that GEN Forrest organized the KKK. when he realized that it was NOT to be a guerrilla movement to CONTINUE the WAR against the USA, he VERY publicly resigned from the organization.
what the lincoln regimes THUGS did in the south is called:
CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.
such acts in time of war are referred to in the Law of War as WAR CRIMES, which are punishable by DEATH by HANGING.
what the WAR CRIMINALS of the lincoln regime did in the southland against innocent civilian & helpless POWs is INDEFENSIBLE by any DECENT person.
IF you are a DECENT person, please tell all here why you continue to DENY that what the criminals did to civilian & POWs is not atrocious.
free dixie,sw
sounds like you would make a really fine SS trooper.
what you linked are LIES, propounded by the lincoln administration to coverup THEIR war crimes.
in point of fact a serving Major General , the Judge Advocate General himself,of the US Army said that the "witnesses" in the Wurtz kangaroo court were LIES & SUBORNED PERJURY. did the general lie????
free dixie,sw
the CSA had 100,000+ black soldiers and President Davis begged lincoln, the GREAT SPILLER of INNOCENT blood to take the US POWs back, with NO EXCHANGE required.
are you REALLY stupid enough to believe these damnyankee LIES and/or do you believe everyone else on FR is that STUPID & NAIVE???
the rest of us here are NOT stupid and are on to your game. we know that you are either a TROLL or a FOOL. which is it????
free dixie,sw
#282 [#3Fan] I saw that the ship's men needed arms because they expected to be attacked by Confederates, but I don't see where arms were to be delivered. The Confederates had attacked ships before any agreement was made between the Buchanan administration and the rebels, so they had a thing about attacking ships.
#341 [#3Fan] It looks as if the arms were for the ship.
#383 [#3Fan] Confederates opened hostilities by firing on the "Star of the West" (is that the name?) so hostilities towards ships were to be expected.
#386 [#3Fan] The "Star of the West" was attacked.
#3Fan was specifically referring to armed men defending against an attack against the ships, as proven beyond a resonable doubt by the above quotes. Numbers 383 and 386 apply icing to the context.
#282 [#3Fan] I saw that the ship's men needed arms because they expected to be attacked by Confederates, but I don't see where arms were to be delivered. The Confederates had attacked ships before any agreement was made between the Buchanan administration and the rebels, so they had a thing about attacking ships.
#341 [#3Fan] It looks as if the arms were for the ship.
#383 [#3Fan] Confederates opened hostilities by firing on the "Star of the West" (is that the name?) so hostilities towards ships were to be expected.
#386 [#3Fan] The "Star of the West" was attacked.
#3Fan was specifically referring to armed men defending against an attack against the ships, as proven beyond a resonable doubt by the above quotes. Numbers 383 and 386 apply icing to the context.
what part of INTENTIONAL PERJURY don't you understand????
free dixie,sw
free dixie,sw
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