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An opposing view: Descendant of black Confederate soldier speaks at museum
Thomasville Times-Enterprise ^ | 24 Feb 2004 | Mark Lastinger

Posted on 02/25/2004 11:52:26 AM PST by 4CJ

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To: rustbucket
You might be interested in the opinion of Walt Whitman in a December 1864 letter to the New York Times:

I want to see direct proof that the Confederate POWs were massacred. Something like a letter from the Secretary telling his underlings to kill the POWs will do. As we've seen here especially lately, people in the government will lie about their higher-ups if they have an agenda. 140 years from now would you want someone quoting Clarke to see what was going through the mind of Rice and Bush? This Whitman guy looks like he has an agenda because he is praising the rebels. In every war people have the opportunity to commit murder and some take it. It could be that they were intentionally starved but I'd have to see better proof than from a third party. Each side has it's murderers. I've avoided accusing any general of murder because war is hell but I think there was one confederate general that did basically murder his troops because he was angry at them about something and made them fight at night where they were massacred by Union soldiers. I don't live for this stuff and some of you guys do so I know you know who I'm talking about but I can't remember his name. "Cook" or something like that. Getting back to the POWs, there was a war going on and we didn't have the system of taxation we have now so supplies may have been tight at times or the availability of surgeons, or the availability of ships to exchange POWs. Plus, even the soldiers in the field died two to one from disease compared to battle if I'm not mistaken. So the death rate in the Union-controlled POW camps may not have been much worse than the death rate of the free union soldiers from disease. All these factors add up to the fact there may have been more going through the Secretary's mind than meets the eye.

By the way, the Immortal Captives book is extremely well documented. I bought my copy at Andersonville Prison in the Park Service store.

I'd have to see good proof before I'd accuse an official of murder of POWs. Of course we know it goes on though. Japanese soldiers were not taken prisoner in a lot of cases. It's like Sherman implied, most generals in wartime could be charged with these things. He's right, though almost all would not be convicted.

1,501 posted on 03/24/2004 10:52:50 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: rustbucket
Like I said there was a war going on and supplies, ships, etc, don't come easy.
1,502 posted on 03/24/2004 10:54:19 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: lentulusgracchus
Cite me and quote me.

I said "you guys".

1,503 posted on 03/24/2004 10:55:35 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
BTTT
1,504 posted on 03/24/2004 10:56:45 PM PST by Fiddlstix (This Space Available for Rent or Lease by the Day, Week, or Month. Reasonable Rates. Inquire within.)
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To: lentulusgracchus
There are a lot of people on these boards who have taken liberties with the truth, and some outright liars. You just picked on the wrong guy to call a liar, slimer. Prove it or shut up.

Are you that stupid? I don't live at home, you idiot. Crapitalist said I did.

1,505 posted on 03/24/2004 10:56:47 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: Fiddlstix
BTTT

Top of the Smokey Backroom? It's been about the only thing in the Smokey Backroom for days now. :^)

1,506 posted on 03/24/2004 10:58:20 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: #3Fan
...my parent's home..., rather.
1,507 posted on 03/24/2004 10:59:31 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: #3Fan
And by the way, you guys hate northern cities, you hate northerners, you hate the union soldiers, you hate our former president, you hate union generals.

"You guys"? Who are you talking about, "you guys"? Prove that I "hate northern cities", that I "hate northerners" (why would anyone hate northerners? -- your charm so recommends you). Prove I "hate the union soldiers", that I "hate our former president", and that I "hate union generals". Come one, you said it. Back it up or shut up. Without support, your post is flatly abusive.

Contrast that with the things I've said, where the only people I've ever said anything against is the slaveholder-secessionists, the ones that were thugs.

"The only people [you've] ever said anything against" just happen to include "you guys", i.e. just about everyone on this board. You contradict yourself, and you're abusing people even as you cloak yourself in a threadbare selfrighteousness that is belied by your most proximate spew.

You gave me that speech where you said you were a decent person and a nice guy, but all you do is spew hatred in an unfair way and you lie.

All he does is "spew hatred in an unfair way and ....lie"? Prove that, too, while you are at it. You realize, of course, that his (or anyone's) being able to point to a single post in which Gianni does anything but what you unfairly say he does, makes you a witting liar and abuser.

1,508 posted on 03/24/2004 11:21:13 PM PST by lentulusgracchus (Et praeterea caeterum censeo, delenda est Carthago. -- M. Porcius Cato)
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To: #3Fan
I said, prove it or shut up.
1,509 posted on 03/24/2004 11:22:33 PM PST by lentulusgracchus (Et praeterea caeterum censeo, delenda est Carthago. -- M. Porcius Cato)
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To: #3Fan
I was just quickly bookmarking it for later. I want to get around to reading the replies when I have time. It's a long one. LOL
1,510 posted on 03/24/2004 11:33:37 PM PST by Fiddlstix (This Space Available for Rent or Lease by the Day, Week, or Month. Reasonable Rates. Inquire within.)
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To: #3Fan
No, you just can't break laws when you feel like it. You guys are the anarchists....Your claim that any law can be broken at any time is ridiculous.

Sovereigns denounce treaties and abrogate laws all the time. They revoke constitutions if they please. Your attempt wilfully to bind your interlocutors with a faithless argument notwithstanding, the point's been made.

Furthermore, the obvious bad faith and name-calling of your deliberate mischaracterizations of my argument about the People's powers as sovereign disqualifies you from further discussion -- of anything. You're a renegade and a troll, irresponsible, and faithless, and you speak with forked tongue. Go away.

1,511 posted on 03/24/2004 11:38:26 PM PST by lentulusgracchus (Et praeterea caeterum censeo, delenda est Carthago. -- M. Porcius Cato)
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To: lentulusgracchus
You guys"? Who are you talking about, "you guys"? Prove that I "hate northern cities", that I "hate northerners"

Look at all the hate on this thread from the neoconfederates.

(why would anyone hate northerners? -- your charm so recommends you).

What have I done that makes you say that? I haven't spewed any hate like you guys have.

Prove I "hate the union soldiers", that I "hate our former president", and that I "hate union generals". Come one, you said it. Back it up or shut up. Without support, your post is flatly abusive.

Read this thread and you'll see lies and namecalling against Lincoln, Chicago, Indianans, Sherman, and Union soldiers from your side.

"The only people [you've] ever said anything against" just happen to include "you guys", i.e. just about everyone on this board. You contradict yourself, and you're abusing people even as you cloak yourself in a threadbare selfrighteousness that is belied by your most proximate spew.

Of course I've said things against you guys, all of you have either continuously personally attacked me and lied about me or both. But when it comes to the argument, the hatred is all one-sided except that I have said I despised the slaveholder-secessionists. Most of what you guys post is hate.

All he does is "spew hatred in an unfair way and ....lie"? Prove that, too,

His Chicago quote and he said I was unemployed...a lie.

...while you are at it. You realize, of course, that his (or anyone's) being able to point to a single post in which Gianni does anything but what you unfairly say he does, makes you a witting liar and abuser.

Gianni has been very hateful, calling me a "freak" unprovoked, putting down Chicago, and lying about my employment...three off the top of my head.

1,512 posted on 03/24/2004 11:47:43 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: lentulusgracchus
I said, prove it or shut up.

What do you want my mailing address? Forget it. Crapitalist lied when he said I live with my parents, simple as that. He lied when he said I was going to Louisiana. You guys lie about a lot of things.

1,513 posted on 03/24/2004 11:50:05 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: Fiddlstix
I was just quickly bookmarking it for later. I want to get around to reading the replies when I have time. It's a long one. LOL

If you want to read 1500 posts of 7 people calling me every name in the book, then I guess you can spend a couple days doing that. :^)

1,514 posted on 03/24/2004 11:51:37 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: lentulusgracchus
Sovereigns denounce treaties and abrogate laws all the time. They revoke constitutions if they please. Your attempt wilfully to bind your interlocutors with a faithless argument notwithstanding, the point's been made.

Wrong, we're a nation of laws and our Constitution has never been revoked.

Furthermore, the obvious bad faith and name-calling of your deliberate mischaracterizations of my argument about the People's powers as sovereign disqualifies you from further discussion -- of anything. You're a renegade and a troll, irresponsible, and faithless, and you speak with forked tongue. Go away.

Again we're a nation of laws sanctioned by God in Romans.

1,515 posted on 03/24/2004 11:54:16 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: #3Fan
[#3Fan] Again you post the opinion of idiots and act like it's truth.

When did I EVER post one of your opinions and act like it was the truth?

1,516 posted on 03/25/2004 12:10:10 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: #3Fan
[#3Fan] Lincoln was like Bush and Reagan, the Washington social establishment didn't like him.

Neither Bush nor Reagan was a racist. Neither Bush nor Reagan was a rapist of the Constitution.

Provide quotes of those who, if they exist, wrote favorably of Lincoln before he was dead.

Abraham Lincoln was a Southern poor white, of illegitimate birth, poorly educated and unusually ugly, awkward, ill-dressed. He liked smutty stories and was a politician down to his toes. Aristocrats -- Jeff Davis, Seward and their ilk-despised him, and indeed he had little outwardly that compelled respect.

1,517 posted on 03/25/2004 12:20:10 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: #3Fan
[#3Fan] it's against God's law.

Remember that #3Dictionary defines #3God and General Benjamin "Spoons" Butler.

Who gets to define what is "God's law?" Must we settle for some snake handler, such as yourself?

1,518 posted on 03/25/2004 12:25:06 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: nolu chan
Neither Bush nor Reagan was a racist. Neither Bush nor Reagan was a rapist of the Constitution.

Lincoln was a product of his time, like some of the founding fathers, but not a racist like those that drafted the Declarations of Secession plus he did what was allowed in the Constitution.

Provide quotes of those who, if they exist, wrote favorably of Lincoln before he was dead.

I said he wasn't liked by the socialites.

Abraham Lincoln was a Southern poor white, of illegitimate birth, poorly educated and unusually ugly, awkward, ill-dressed. He liked smutty stories and was a politician down to his toes. Aristocrats -- Jeff Davis, Seward and their ilk-despised him, and indeed he had little outwardly that compelled respect.

You are a typical hateful neoconfederate. Notice that my posts don't show the hate that you guy's posts do.

1,519 posted on 03/25/2004 12:27:15 AM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: #3Fan
[#3Fan] Your overreaction to a typo

What typo? I see no typographical error. I see nothing misspelled.

1,520 posted on 03/25/2004 12:27:59 AM PST by nolu chan
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