Posted on 02/25/2004 11:52:26 AM PST by 4CJ
THOMASVILLE -- Nelson Winbush knows his voice isn't likely to be heard above the crowd that writes American history books. That doesn't keep him from speaking his mind, however.
A 75-year-old black man whose grandfather proudly fought in the gray uniform of the South during the Civil War, Winbush addressed a group of about 40 at the Thomas County Museum of History Sunday afternoon. To say the least, his perspective of the war differs greatly from what is taught in America's classrooms today.
"People have manufactured a lot of mistruths about why the war took place," he said. "It wasn't about slavery. It was about state's rights and tariffs."
Many of Winbush's words were reserved for the Confederate battle flag, which still swirls amid controversy more than 150 years after it originally flew.
"This flag has been lied about more than any flag in the world," Winbush said. "People see it and they don't really know what the hell they are looking at."
About midway through his 90-minute presentation, Winbush's comments were issued with extra force.
"This flag is the one that draped my grandfathers' coffin," he said while clutching it strongly in his left hand. "I would shudder to think what would happen if somebody tried to do something to this particular flag."
Winbush, a retired in educator and Korean War veteran who resides in Kissimmee, Fla., said the Confederate battle flag has been hijacked by racist groups, prompting unwarranted criticism from its detractors.
"This flag had nothing to with the (Ku Klux) klan or skinheads," he said while wearing a necktie that featured the Confederate emblem. "They weren't even heard of then. It was just a guide to follow in battle.
"That's all it ever was."
Winbush said Confederate soldiers started using the flag with the St. Andrews cross because its original flag closely resembled the U.S. flag. The first Confederate flag's blue patch in an upper corner and its alternating red and white stripes caused confusion on the battlefield, he said.
"Neither side (of the debate) knows what the flag represents," Winbush said. "It's dumb and dumber. You can turn it around, but it's still two dumb bunches.
"If you learn anything else today, don't be dumb."
Winbush learned about the Civil War at the knee of Louis Napoleon Nelson, who joined his master and one of his master's sons in battle voluntarily when he was 14. Nelson saw combat at Lookout Mountain, Bryson's Crossroads, Shiloh and Vicksburg.
"At Shiloh, my grandfather served as a chaplain even though he couldn't read or write," said Winbush, who bolstered his points with photos, letters and newspapers that used to belong to his grandfather. "I've never heard of a black Yankee holding such an office, so that makes him a little different."
Winbush said his grandfather, who also served as a "scavenger," never had any qualms about fighting for the South. He had plenty of chances to make a break for freedom, but never did. He attended 39 Confederate reunions, the final one in 1934. A Sons of Confederate Veterans Chapter in Tennessee is named after him.
"People ask why a black person would fight for the Confederacy. (It was) for the same damned reason a white Southerner did," Winbush explained.
Winbush said Southern blacks and whites often lived together as extended families., adding slaves and slave owners were outraged when Union forces raided their homes. He said history books rarely make mention of this.
"When the master and his older sons went to war, who did he leave his families with?" asked Winbush, who grandfather remained with his former owners 12 years after the hostilities ended. "It was with the slaves. Were his (family members) mistreated? Hell, no!
"They were protected."
Winbush said more than 90,000 blacks, some of them free, fought for the Confederacy. He has said in the past that he would have fought by his grandfather's side in the 7th Tennessee Cavalry led by Gen. Nathan Bedford Forest.
After his presentation, Winbush opened the floor for questions. Two black women, including Jule Anderson of the Thomas County Historical Society Board of Directors, told him the Confederate battle flag made them uncomfortable.
Winbush, who said he started speaking out about the Civil War in 1992 after growing weary of what he dubbed "political correctness," was also challenged about his opinions.
"I have difficulty in trying to apply today's standards with what happened 150 years ago," he said to Anderson's tearful comments. "...That's what a lot of people are attempting to do. I'm just presenting facts, not as I read from some book where somebody thought that they understood. This came straight from the horse's mouth, and I refute anybody to deny that."
Thomas County Historical Society Board member and SVC member Chip Bragg moved in to close the session after it took a political turn when a white audience member voiced disapproval of the use of Confederate symbols on the state flag. Georgia voters are set to go to the polls a week from today to pick a flag to replace the 1956 version, which featured the St. Andrew's cross prominently.
"Those of us who are serious about our Confederate heritage are very unhappy with the trivialization of Confederate symbols and their misuse," he said. "Part of what we are trying to do is correct this misunderstanding."
Now we're getting somewhere. Where in the Constitution are these things listed?
Wait... are you using your imagination again?
Ran this through the Democrat Translator, came out: UN-employed.
Liar.
I live farther south than parts of Virginia and I haven't been to Chicago in 4 years. I live closer to Arkansas than Chicago. Great city, regardless, my favorite. I like Charlotte and London too.
And by the way, you guys hate northern cities, you hate northerners, you hate the union soldiers, you hate our former president, you hate union generals. Contrast that with the things I've said, where the only people I've ever said anything against is the slaveholder-secessionists, the ones that were thugs. I don't even have that much against Davis, he had the righteousness to accept God's judgment at least and didn't whine when he was captured (at that moment, anyway). You gave me that speech where you said you were a decent person and a nice guy, but all you do is spew hatred in an unfair way and you lie.
And to think - he wouldn't have to live their either if he would simply move out of his mother's basement like he should have done when he turned 18 two decades ago. It must be by choice.
Liar. I moved out as a teenager. You guys don't care what kind of lies you tell at all.
The South made such an offer but the North was slow in taking them up on it, resulting in additional POW deaths. From Judge Robert Ould, Confederate Agent of Exchange (Source: Point Lookout Prison Camp for Confederates, by Edwin W. Beitzell, copyright 1983):
When it was ascertained that exchanges could not be made either on the basis of the cartel or officer for officer and man for man, I was instructed by the Confederate authorities to offer to the United States Government their sick and wounded, without requiring any equivalents. Accordingly, in the summer of 1864, I did offer to deliver from ten to fifteen thousand of the sick and wounded at the mouth of the Savannah River without requiring any equivalents, assuring at the same time the agent of the United States, General Mulford, that if the number for which he might send transportation could not readily be made up from sick and wounded, I would supply the difference with well men. Although this offer was made in the summer of 1864, transportation was not sent to the Savannah River until about the middle or last of November, and then I delivered as many prisoners as could be transported, - some thirteen thousand in number, amongst, whom were more than five thousand well men.
Disagreements make no difference. Starving thousands of soldiers that are POWs is murder. The south was using them as hostages to make demands and allowed them to die when those demands were not met. That's terrorism.
I don't buy your assertion. You might take a look at Immortal Captives, The Story of Six Hundred Confederate Officers and the United States Prisoner of War Policy by Mauriel Phillips Joslyn. It details the treatment and death by intentional starvation of some Confederate officers by the US Army.
Also, on January 24, 1864, long before the bulk of men died at Andersonville, Judge Robert Ould, Confederate Agent of Prisoner Exchange, sent the following letter:
Major General E. A. Hitchcock [US], Agent of Exchange:Sir -- In view of the present difficulties attending the exchange and release of prisoners, I propose that all such on each side shall be attended by a proper number of their own surgeons, who under rules to be established, shall be permitted to take charge of their health and comfort. I also propose that these surgeons shall act as commissaries, with power to receive and distribute such contributions of money, food, clothing and medicines as may be forwarded for the relief of prisoners. I further propose that these surgeons be selected by their own Governments, and that they shall have full liberty at any and all times, through the agents of exchange, to make reports not only of their own acts but also of any matters relating to the Welfare of prisoners.
Respectfully, your obedient servant,
Ro. Ould, Agent of Exchange
The US Secretary of War turned this offer down.
I'm not going to read a book by some lying neoconfederate wacko if that's what the author of that book is. If Confederate POWs were massacred, you should be able to link me to historical proof.
Also, on January 24, 1864, long before the bulk of men died at Andersonville, Judge Robert Ould, Confederate Agent of Prisoner Exchange, sent the following letter: The US Secretary of War turned this offer down.
Why was it turned down? It makes no difference on the Confederate side regardless. Failure to release those they couldn't feed was murder and holding them hostage to demands was terrorism.
In my opinion, the Secretary has taken and obstinately held a position of cold-blooded policy, (that is, he thinks it policy) in this matter, more cruel than anything done by the secessionists. ... In my opinion, the anguish and death of these ten to fifteen thousand American young men, with all the added and incalculable sorrow, long drawn out, amid families at home, rests mainly on the heads of members of our own Government..."
By the way, the Immortal Captives book is extremely well documented. I bought my copy at Andersonville Prison in the Park Service store.
Cite me and quote me.
You're a liar.
There are a lot of people on these boards who have taken liberties with the truth, and some outright liars.
You just picked on the wrong guy to call a liar, slimer.
Prove it or shut up.
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