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An opposing view: Descendant of black Confederate soldier speaks at museum
Thomasville Times-Enterprise ^ | 24 Feb 2004 | Mark Lastinger

Posted on 02/25/2004 11:52:26 AM PST by 4CJ

THOMASVILLE -- Nelson Winbush knows his voice isn't likely to be heard above the crowd that writes American history books. That doesn't keep him from speaking his mind, however.

A 75-year-old black man whose grandfather proudly fought in the gray uniform of the South during the Civil War, Winbush addressed a group of about 40 at the Thomas County Museum of History Sunday afternoon. To say the least, his perspective of the war differs greatly from what is taught in America's classrooms today.

"People have manufactured a lot of mistruths about why the war took place," he said. "It wasn't about slavery. It was about state's rights and tariffs."

Many of Winbush's words were reserved for the Confederate battle flag, which still swirls amid controversy more than 150 years after it originally flew.

"This flag has been lied about more than any flag in the world," Winbush said. "People see it and they don't really know what the hell they are looking at."

About midway through his 90-minute presentation, Winbush's comments were issued with extra force.

"This flag is the one that draped my grandfathers' coffin," he said while clutching it strongly in his left hand. "I would shudder to think what would happen if somebody tried to do something to this particular flag."

Winbush, a retired in educator and Korean War veteran who resides in Kissimmee, Fla., said the Confederate battle flag has been hijacked by racist groups, prompting unwarranted criticism from its detractors.

"This flag had nothing to with the (Ku Klux) klan or skinheads," he said while wearing a necktie that featured the Confederate emblem. "They weren't even heard of then. It was just a guide to follow in battle.

"That's all it ever was."

Winbush said Confederate soldiers started using the flag with the St. Andrews cross because its original flag closely resembled the U.S. flag. The first Confederate flag's blue patch in an upper corner and its alternating red and white stripes caused confusion on the battlefield, he said.

"Neither side (of the debate) knows what the flag represents," Winbush said. "It's dumb and dumber. You can turn it around, but it's still two dumb bunches.

"If you learn anything else today, don't be dumb."

Winbush learned about the Civil War at the knee of Louis Napoleon Nelson, who joined his master and one of his master's sons in battle voluntarily when he was 14. Nelson saw combat at Lookout Mountain, Bryson's Crossroads, Shiloh and Vicksburg.

"At Shiloh, my grandfather served as a chaplain even though he couldn't read or write," said Winbush, who bolstered his points with photos, letters and newspapers that used to belong to his grandfather. "I've never heard of a black Yankee holding such an office, so that makes him a little different."

Winbush said his grandfather, who also served as a "scavenger," never had any qualms about fighting for the South. He had plenty of chances to make a break for freedom, but never did. He attended 39 Confederate reunions, the final one in 1934. A Sons of Confederate Veterans Chapter in Tennessee is named after him.

"People ask why a black person would fight for the Confederacy. (It was) for the same damned reason a white Southerner did," Winbush explained.

Winbush said Southern blacks and whites often lived together as extended families., adding slaves and slave owners were outraged when Union forces raided their homes. He said history books rarely make mention of this.

"When the master and his older sons went to war, who did he leave his families with?" asked Winbush, who grandfather remained with his former owners 12 years after the hostilities ended. "It was with the slaves. Were his (family members) mistreated? Hell, no!

"They were protected."

Winbush said more than 90,000 blacks, some of them free, fought for the Confederacy. He has said in the past that he would have fought by his grandfather's side in the 7th Tennessee Cavalry led by Gen. Nathan Bedford Forest.

After his presentation, Winbush opened the floor for questions. Two black women, including Jule Anderson of the Thomas County Historical Society Board of Directors, told him the Confederate battle flag made them uncomfortable.

Winbush, who said he started speaking out about the Civil War in 1992 after growing weary of what he dubbed "political correctness," was also challenged about his opinions.

"I have difficulty in trying to apply today's standards with what happened 150 years ago," he said to Anderson's tearful comments. "...That's what a lot of people are attempting to do. I'm just presenting facts, not as I read from some book where somebody thought that they understood. This came straight from the horse's mouth, and I refute anybody to deny that."

Thomas County Historical Society Board member and SVC member Chip Bragg moved in to close the session after it took a political turn when a white audience member voiced disapproval of the use of Confederate symbols on the state flag. Georgia voters are set to go to the polls a week from today to pick a flag to replace the 1956 version, which featured the St. Andrew's cross prominently.

"Those of us who are serious about our Confederate heritage are very unhappy with the trivialization of Confederate symbols and their misuse," he said. "Part of what we are trying to do is correct this misunderstanding."


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: dixie; dixielist
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To: stand watie
i understand your aversion to BOOKS!

It's more accurate to read documentation instead of one man's opinion for a week.

cretins of the racist, lunatic fringe always HATE KNOWLEDGE, especially when it conflicts with their IGNORANT notions of what is correct (or Politically Correct for that matter).

Propaganda isn't knowledge.

i notice that you also failed to comment on the TRUE WORDS of a serving General Officer of the US Army (who, btw, is from VT-not a dixie partisan area!). (didn't like that, did you Mr Clymer???) do you think HE LIED???? PLEASE comment on that! (if you dare)

You showed me no link, and since you're obviously insane, I want anything you claim to have links.

and YES there was death, privation, starvation (including MANY who died of hunger in the GUARD FORCE!) & MASSIVE loss of life among the unfortunate inmates at Camp Sumpter,but NONE of it was INTENTIONAL.

Yes it was since they could've been released. It's murder to keep those you can't feed.

otoh, the RAPES,ROBBERIES,TORTURE, DENIAL of clothing/shelter/blankets/food/clean water and coldblooded murder of at least 15,000 defenseless POWs WAS INTENTIONAL on the part of the lincoln regime! that too is FACT!

Prove it with a link.

1,461 posted on 03/24/2004 3:40:21 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: lentulusgracchus
You're easily amused.
1,462 posted on 03/24/2004 3:41:05 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: stand watie
btw, hasn't anyone told you that i'm one of those "muddy coloured people" that mr lincoln, the WAR CRIMINAL & tyrant, HATED/feared????

I've seen your picture, your as white as I am. And Lincoln freed the slaves much to the chagrin of the Confederacy.

i'm what used to be called a half-breed, in less PC times. my father was a fullblood (and a Green Corn Dancer, of which he was PROUD till his dying day.);my mother is white.

Who gives a rat's behind? A lot of my friends here are part Indian, they don't go getting all huffy about things like capital letters, they consider themselves Americans.

1,463 posted on 03/24/2004 3:45:44 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: stand watie
yet ANOTHER RACIST post from our resident cretin! you're on a roll. btw, i could NOT care less what you think of me PERSONALLY, but i do resent your INTENTIONALLY insensitive/racist comments about our tribe's customs/traditions & your OPEN disrespect for the "older & more traditional members" of the group.

Stand Watie! Boo!

my prophesy about your lack of presence on FR will likely come true & soon.

If it's for using capital letter then so be it. Should we also make all roadsigns in Spanish so we don't offend hispnaics?

1,464 posted on 03/24/2004 3:48:37 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: stand watie
the documents at the National POW Center at Andersonville CLEARLY state that the MANY PRIVATIONS at that unfortunate place were NOT intentional. period,end of story!

By not releasing those they couldn't feed, it was murder.

1,465 posted on 03/24/2004 3:49:56 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: stand watie
PRESIDENT DAVIS offered to release ALL the Union POWS. lincoln, the cruel tyrant, REFUSED to accept them back to US lines.

Because the south never kept their word on anything.

1,466 posted on 03/24/2004 3:50:58 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: stand watie
PRESIDENT DAVIS offered to release ALL the Union POWS. lincoln, the cruel tyrant, REFUSED to accept them back to US lines.

Because the south never kept their word on anything.

the actual letter to Stanton still exists, sadly for you damnyankee worshipers at the feet of lincoln the tyrant & clayfooted saint

Prove it with a link.

1,467 posted on 03/24/2004 3:52:15 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: lentulusgracchus
Pinging.....you guys gotta see this.....

It's canned. You've never seen it? You're easily amused.

1,468 posted on 03/24/2004 3:53:38 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: GOPcapitalist
...apparently is not employed...

Self employed. My work is off and on throughout the day and night. I post in between work.

1,469 posted on 03/24/2004 3:57:00 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: Gianni
Anarchy ultimately begets totalitarianism.

Not following the Constitution is anarchy.

1,470 posted on 03/24/2004 3:58:53 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: stand watie
in point of fact, he HATED & FEARED asians,blacks,catholics,indians,jews,latinos,recent immigrants

Prove it.

1,471 posted on 03/24/2004 4:01:12 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: stand watie
it's worth noting that lncoln, the 1st of damnyankeeland, did NOT favor FREEING ANY slaves, until it looked as though GB & France would recognise the CSA AND until the radicals in the party forced him to.

*** Why would GB and France support the CSA over Lincoln when they freed their slaves already? I wasn't even aware that other countries were really involved. That's how much I know!

in point of fact, he HATED & FEARED asians,blacks,catholics,indians,jews,latinos,recent immigrants and "muddy coloured people" (1/2 breeds like ME for instance).

*** Now THIS I do know... esp. his not so kind words about negro women (I bet he boffed a maid or two behind closed doors). Unlike Jefferson, his opinion of indian tribes were pretty low which is unusual since the whites then thought they were pretty equal to themselves.
1,472 posted on 03/24/2004 5:18:30 PM PST by cyborg (my profile page speaks for itself)
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To: Gianni; nolu chan
PSSST! Check out #1469. He seems to think that "star trek rerun watcher" and "video game tester" are real jobs. He makes his posts in between episodes.
1,473 posted on 03/24/2004 6:44:29 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: nolu chan; Gianni; lentulusgracchus
Wow. Now that's gotta be a new record. Every single post from #1447 to #1471 is by the #3 Jessica Lynch Fanatic. Remember what I told you about how he verbally defecates on every single thread he visits?
1,474 posted on 03/24/2004 6:51:08 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: #3Fan
About 900 posts ago and I'm not backtracking that far because we discussed it foir hundreds of posts. My Texas link. You saw it. You're just pretending it doesn't exist because it proves me right.

Please see post #1419.

And as a a matter of courtesy, stand watie has asked you to refrain from capitalizing his name. He is half Native American, I am far less (Creek), but even my limited knowledge & participation in native customs/ceremonies, such requests have a spiritual meaning and reverence that I wish would be respected.

1,475 posted on 03/24/2004 7:28:53 PM PST by 4CJ (||) OUR sins put Him on that cross - HIS love for us kept Him there. (||)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
it's against God's law.

Sound familiar?

1,476 posted on 03/24/2004 7:31:47 PM PST by Gianni (Sarcasm, the other white meat.)
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To: #3Fan
Article IV, Section 1 says that Congress may prescribe laws to set the manner in which states prove their acts and secession is an act.

The evening of Lincoln's assassination, Booth's mistress wore furry pink panties with white lace in the waistband. Per Article 1, Section 8, "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries" her act voided Article IV.

How's my #3logic?

1,477 posted on 03/24/2004 7:40:21 PM PST by Gianni (Sarcasm, the other white meat.)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
And as a a matter of courtesy, stand watie has asked you to refrain from capitalizing his name. He is half Native American, I am far less (Creek), but even my limited knowledge & participation in native customs/ceremonies, such requests have a spiritual meaning and reverence that I wish would be respected.

He respects my people, I'll respect his. The things he says about Lincoln is inexcusable. I grew up in a town that has historical markers telling what Lincoln did here. I have family that lives on a Lincoln historical site. I don't respect people unless I feel they deserve it and the things Stand Watie says about American soldiers and his fellow Americans are despicable lies and he is despicable.

1,478 posted on 03/24/2004 7:41:41 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: #3Fan
The south was saying "do this or the POWs die". That's terrorism.

Link or citation please.

1,479 posted on 03/24/2004 7:42:43 PM PST by Gianni (Sarcasm, the other white meat.)
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To: Gianni
Now who are you going to accuse me of being?
1,480 posted on 03/24/2004 7:42:47 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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