Posted on 02/25/2004 11:52:26 AM PST by 4CJ
THOMASVILLE -- Nelson Winbush knows his voice isn't likely to be heard above the crowd that writes American history books. That doesn't keep him from speaking his mind, however.
A 75-year-old black man whose grandfather proudly fought in the gray uniform of the South during the Civil War, Winbush addressed a group of about 40 at the Thomas County Museum of History Sunday afternoon. To say the least, his perspective of the war differs greatly from what is taught in America's classrooms today.
"People have manufactured a lot of mistruths about why the war took place," he said. "It wasn't about slavery. It was about state's rights and tariffs."
Many of Winbush's words were reserved for the Confederate battle flag, which still swirls amid controversy more than 150 years after it originally flew.
"This flag has been lied about more than any flag in the world," Winbush said. "People see it and they don't really know what the hell they are looking at."
About midway through his 90-minute presentation, Winbush's comments were issued with extra force.
"This flag is the one that draped my grandfathers' coffin," he said while clutching it strongly in his left hand. "I would shudder to think what would happen if somebody tried to do something to this particular flag."
Winbush, a retired in educator and Korean War veteran who resides in Kissimmee, Fla., said the Confederate battle flag has been hijacked by racist groups, prompting unwarranted criticism from its detractors.
"This flag had nothing to with the (Ku Klux) klan or skinheads," he said while wearing a necktie that featured the Confederate emblem. "They weren't even heard of then. It was just a guide to follow in battle.
"That's all it ever was."
Winbush said Confederate soldiers started using the flag with the St. Andrews cross because its original flag closely resembled the U.S. flag. The first Confederate flag's blue patch in an upper corner and its alternating red and white stripes caused confusion on the battlefield, he said.
"Neither side (of the debate) knows what the flag represents," Winbush said. "It's dumb and dumber. You can turn it around, but it's still two dumb bunches.
"If you learn anything else today, don't be dumb."
Winbush learned about the Civil War at the knee of Louis Napoleon Nelson, who joined his master and one of his master's sons in battle voluntarily when he was 14. Nelson saw combat at Lookout Mountain, Bryson's Crossroads, Shiloh and Vicksburg.
"At Shiloh, my grandfather served as a chaplain even though he couldn't read or write," said Winbush, who bolstered his points with photos, letters and newspapers that used to belong to his grandfather. "I've never heard of a black Yankee holding such an office, so that makes him a little different."
Winbush said his grandfather, who also served as a "scavenger," never had any qualms about fighting for the South. He had plenty of chances to make a break for freedom, but never did. He attended 39 Confederate reunions, the final one in 1934. A Sons of Confederate Veterans Chapter in Tennessee is named after him.
"People ask why a black person would fight for the Confederacy. (It was) for the same damned reason a white Southerner did," Winbush explained.
Winbush said Southern blacks and whites often lived together as extended families., adding slaves and slave owners were outraged when Union forces raided their homes. He said history books rarely make mention of this.
"When the master and his older sons went to war, who did he leave his families with?" asked Winbush, who grandfather remained with his former owners 12 years after the hostilities ended. "It was with the slaves. Were his (family members) mistreated? Hell, no!
"They were protected."
Winbush said more than 90,000 blacks, some of them free, fought for the Confederacy. He has said in the past that he would have fought by his grandfather's side in the 7th Tennessee Cavalry led by Gen. Nathan Bedford Forest.
After his presentation, Winbush opened the floor for questions. Two black women, including Jule Anderson of the Thomas County Historical Society Board of Directors, told him the Confederate battle flag made them uncomfortable.
Winbush, who said he started speaking out about the Civil War in 1992 after growing weary of what he dubbed "political correctness," was also challenged about his opinions.
"I have difficulty in trying to apply today's standards with what happened 150 years ago," he said to Anderson's tearful comments. "...That's what a lot of people are attempting to do. I'm just presenting facts, not as I read from some book where somebody thought that they understood. This came straight from the horse's mouth, and I refute anybody to deny that."
Thomas County Historical Society Board member and SVC member Chip Bragg moved in to close the session after it took a political turn when a white audience member voiced disapproval of the use of Confederate symbols on the state flag. Georgia voters are set to go to the polls a week from today to pick a flag to replace the 1956 version, which featured the St. Andrew's cross prominently.
"Those of us who are serious about our Confederate heritage are very unhappy with the trivialization of Confederate symbols and their misuse," he said. "Part of what we are trying to do is correct this misunderstanding."
Oh, we can do better than that. We can ask the expert on these boards to address your rare attempt at an actual point.
Pinging........
Bump. From a founding father:
What is a Constitution? It is the form of government, delineated by the mighty hand of the people, in which certain first principles of fundamental laws are established. The constitution is certain and fixed; it contains the permanent will of the people, and is the supreme law of the land; it is paramount to the power of the legislature, and can be revoked or altered only by the authority that made it. The life-giving principle and the death-doing stroke must proceed from the same hand. What are legislatures? Creatures of the constitution; they owe their existence to the constitution: they derive their powers from the constitution: it is their commission; and therefore, all their acts must be conformable to it, or else they will be void. The constitution is the work or will of the people themselves, in their original, sovereign and unlimited capacity. Law is the work or will of the legislature, in their derivative and subordinate capacity. The one is the work of the creator, and the other of the creature. The constitution fixes limits to the exercise of legislative authority, and prescribes the orbit within which it must move. In short, gentlemen, the constitution is the sun of the political system, around which all legislative, executive and judicial bodies must revolve. Whatever may be the case in other countries, yet, in this, there can be no doubt, that every act of the legislature, repugnant to the constitution, is absolutely void.
Justice Paterson, Vanhorne's Lessee v. Dorrance, 2 Dall. 304 C.C.D.Pa. (1795)
That was your fiction, amigo. Your straw man.
Appeal to motive in lieu of support. Argumentum ad hominem.
Pretty tawdry act you run, amigo.
To be a Lincoln man, and do what Lincoln wanted to do in the face of the Constitution, he'd have to be a bit of an anarchist, now wouldn't he?
cretins of the racist, lunatic fringe always HATE KNOWLEDGE, especially when it conflicts with their IGNORANT notions of what is correct (or Politically Correct for that matter).
i notice that you also failed to comment on the TRUE WORDS of a serving General Officer of the US Army (who, btw, is from VT-not a dixie partisan area!). (didn't like that, did you Mr Clymer???) do you think HE LIED???? PLEASE comment on that! (if you dare)
and YES there was death, privation, starvation (including MANY who died of hunger in the GUARD FORCE!) & MASSIVE loss of life among the unfortunate inmates at Camp Sumpter,but NONE of it was INTENTIONAL.
otoh, the RAPES,ROBBERIES,TORTURE, DENIAL of clothing/shelter/blankets/food/clean water and coldblooded murder of at least 15,000 defenseless POWs WAS INTENTIONAL on the part of the lincoln regime! that too is FACT!
free dixie,sw
ROFL!
he TOO served the TRUE CAUSE, by making long,boring,stupid,off-point,HATE-filled,arrogantly ignorant statements, which were EASILY disproved, though i DISPISE scalawags & dixieborn TURNCOATS, above all other low forms of life. (even the worst of the damnyankees is above a scalawag in my estimation.)
btw, hasn't anyone told you that i'm one of those "muddy coloured people" that mr lincoln, the WAR CRIMINAL & tyrant, HATED/feared????
i'm what used to be called a half-breed, in less PC times. my father was a fullblood (and a Green Corn Dancer, of which he was PROUD till his dying day.);my mother is white.
free dixie,sw
free the southland,sw
you're on a roll.
btw, i could NOT care less what you think of me PERSONALLY, but i do resent your INTENTIONALLY insensitive/racist comments about our tribe's customs/traditions & your OPEN disrespect for the "older & more traditional members" of the group.
my prophesy about your lack of presence on FR will likely come true & soon.
free dixie,sw
the documents at the National POW Center at Andersonville CLEARLY state that the MANY PRIVATIONS at that unfortunate place were NOT intentional. period,end of story!
the same displays state that MANY of the GUARDS died of malnutrition.
free dixie,sw
lincoln, the cruel tyrant, REFUSED to accept them back to US lines.free dixie,sw
lincoln, the cruel tyrant, REFUSED to accept them back to US lines.
the actual letter to Stanton still exists, sadly for you damnyankee worshipers at the feet of lincoln the tyrant & clayfooted saint.
free dixie,sw
free dixie,sw
i used to call him a DUMBBUNNY, but i received a freepmail from a lady, who told me i was insulting RABBITS! i stopped!
free dixie,sw
"LG"
i used to call him a DUMBBUNNY, but i received a freepmail from a lady, who told me i was insulting RABBITS! i stopped!
Rabbits can't help it that they're stupid, but stupid people can help it that they post like rabbits.
I really liked nolu chan's rant -- it was great! Good way to get the blood flowing......and clean out the sinuses, too.
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