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Posts on Religion

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  • Catholic Word of the Day: ROSMINIANISM, 04-16-14

    04/21/2014 9:07:01 AM PDT · 94 of 94
    BlueDragon to annalex; daniel1212
      You're asking from my time though. Please don't.

    Like I've told you previously, in reply to now this again your speaking of your own time ---

    My time is valuable also.

    Each time you post to me in reply, or even on the 'open' religion forum in general --you do seriously waste my time.

    The trouble is that Romanism, though perhaps not exactly "fouled up beyond all repair" is in fact Tangled Up Beyond All Repair, or TUBAR.

    So please stop wasting my own time. The tangles are difficult and time consuming to unravel, and you do have a knack for packing densely within brief statements every serious theological error which Romanism boasts of itself, so -- stop doing that. Check with the holy spirit within (if you have any of that) before replying in posture or tone as if you are some sort of "expert", for you are not expert even on what your own church ecclesiastical community teaches.

    Do you recall the other thread (now locked due to the whining of whiny papists) where I challenged you at reply #344 ---and it took myself and dan (dan spent a LOT of time) and a few others to finally bring yourself to "a point of flux" in regards to dictated by, "inspired by" or otherwise led to more precisely how the "infallible" is arrived at, somewhere around the 1,300+ replies zone of that thread?<

    You have no place to attempt to forbid others "asking" of your own time, not when the TUBAR syndrome is in such display and effect.

    If you care not to face challenge on open threads -- then go back to presenting info from behind caucus walls where none can challenge it.

    If that would save some of your own, then so be it.

    But you will not be allowed to use the rest of the forum as you would use it behind "caucus" designation, or intimidate myself (this time using complaint about "your" time) into silence, for out here, anything that is said is open to challenge & scrutiny.

  • Catholic Word of the Day: SEVEN CHURCHES OF ASIA, 04-21-14

    04/21/2014 9:06:20 AM PDT · 1 of 1
    From the Book of Revelation:

    Revelation, chapter 1


    The First Vision.*

    9I, John, your brother, who share with you the distress, the kingdom, and the endurance we have in Jesus, found myself on the island called Patmos* because I proclaimed God’s word and gave testimony to Jesus.

    10I was caught up in spirit on the Lord’s day* and heard behind me a voice as loud as a trumpet, 11which said, “Write on a scroll* what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”

  • China on Course to Become 'World's Most Christian Nation' Within 15 Years

    04/21/2014 9:04:54 AM PDT · 23 of 23
    ronnyquest to Fai Mao

    Well, that is completely different from what I hear from missionaries. OK.

  • The Final Week of Jesus' Life, a Chronology

    04/21/2014 8:58:52 AM PDT · 289 of 289
    delchiante to delchiante


    One goof I did on the 22nd day sabbath with relation to feast of tabernacles description after the reading this back through today-

    I didn’t elaborate on the 22nd like I thought I had.

    The 21st is the last day of the feasts and on the last day of tabernales, Messiah stood up and gave His cry
    It should have said 21 in my poat, not the 22nd.
    Sorry if I screwed you up.

    7 days of the feast, then the next day(22nd), if that portion of scripture is chronological, should have mention of sabbath.

    And I believe it does.

    15th day- sabbath, 1st day of tabernacles-messiah waits to join them.
    Middle of feast He arrives.
    21st day - last day of feast - His cry for those who thirst...
    22nd day-’sabbath’- He heals the blind man ‘on the sabbath’ with His clay.

    Some of this sequence is in John 9 certainly because I recall John 9:3 being the verse ‘work of God is made manifest in him’ and later the ‘I was blind, but now I see’...
    Sorry again!

  • Proverb 21 [Prayer and Meditation]

    04/21/2014 8:40:16 AM PDT · 4 of 4
    Kartographer to OneVike; Jane Long; dragonblustar; goodnesswins; Salvation; Waryone; TNoldman; chicagolady

    13 Whoever shuts his ears to the cry of the poor
    Will also cry himself and not be heard.

    For my next the difference between the poor and the
    slothful and the hard hearted rant.

  • Is the Church Over the Bible, or the Bible Over the Church?

    04/21/2014 8:36:33 AM PDT · 65 of 65
    vladimir998 to Elsie

    As you have made abundantly clear in the past, you see only what you want to see.

  • Proverb 21 [Prayer and Meditation]

    04/21/2014 8:35:25 AM PDT · 3 of 4
    BipolarBob to OneVike

    Thanks for posting. If only the leaders of this nation would meditate on this then we would all be better off. Unfortunately the voters do not vote for those who revere God. We (and our children and children s children)shall suffer because of this.

  • Catholic Word of the Day: ROSMINIANISM, 04-16-14

    04/21/2014 8:31:11 AM PDT · 93 of 94
    Elsie to annalex
    I'll stick with the inerrant Bible and not your dirty fantasies about it, thank you.

    MAry is dead; awaiting the Last Trump.

    She is NOT in Heaven being Christ's executive secretary.

  • Catholic Word of the Day: ROSMINIANISM, 04-16-14

    04/21/2014 8:30:01 AM PDT · 92 of 94
    Elsie to Springfield Reformer

    Well!! (humph!!!)

    I detect bible-thumping genes in your DNA!!

    Prove they are not there!

  • Catholic Word of the Day: ROSMINIANISM, 04-16-14

    04/21/2014 8:28:44 AM PDT · 91 of 94
    Elsie to annalex
    I don’t see anything meaningful here.

    Of course not.

  • Is the Church Over the Bible, or the Bible Over the Church?

    04/21/2014 8:28:03 AM PDT · 64 of 65
    Elsie to vladimir998; NKP_Vet
    I see you boys are up to your old WE b superior routine...
  • Proverb 21 [Prayer and Meditation]

    04/21/2014 8:26:47 AM PDT · 2 of 4
    OneVike to Kartographer; Jane Long; dragonblustar; goodnesswins; Salvation; Waryone; TNoldman; chicagolady; ...
    Proverb a Day
    Ping List

    Send FReep Mail to OneVike to get
    or [OFF]
    The Proverb A Day Ping List
  • Is the Church Over the Bible, or the Bible Over the Church?

    04/21/2014 8:26:39 AM PDT · 63 of 65
    Elsie to Just mythoughts
    God has much to say about shepherd-less churches whose traditions make His WORD null and void.

    NIV Matthew 2:5
    "In Bethlehem in Judea," they replied, "for this is what the prophet has written:

    NIV Matthew 4:1-11
    1. Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
    2. After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.
    3. The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."
    4. Jesus answered, "It is written: `Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.' "
    5. Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
    6. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "`He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "
    7. Jesus answered him, "It is also written: `Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' "
    8. Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
    9. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
    10. Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: `Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' "
    11. Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

    NIV Matthew 11:10
    This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'

    NIV Matthew 21:13
    "It is written," he said to them, "`My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it a `den of robbers.' "

    NIV Matthew 26:24
    The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him.

    NIV Matthew 26:31
    Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'

    NIV Mark 7:6-7
    6. He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: "`These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
    7. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'

    NIV Mark 9:11-13
    11. And they asked him, "Why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?"
    12. Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?
    13. But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him."

    NIV Mark 11:17
    And as he taught them, he said, "Is it not written: "`My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations' ? But you have made it `a den of robbers.' "

    NIV Mark 14:27
    "You will all fall away," Jesus told them, "for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.'

    NIV Luke 1:1-4
    1. Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us,
    2. just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.
    3. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,
    4. so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

    NIV Luke 4:17-19
    17. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
    18. "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,
    19. to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

    NIV Luke 7:27
    This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'

    NIV Luke 10:26
    "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

    NIV Luke 18:31-33
    31. Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.
    32. He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him.
    33. On the third day he will rise again."

    NIV Luke 20:17-18
    17. Jesus looked directly at them and asked, "Then what is the meaning of that which is written: "`The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone ' ?
    18. Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."

    NIV Luke 21:22
    For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

    NIV Luke 22:37
    It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

    NIV Luke 24:44-47
    44. He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."
    45. Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
    46. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
    47. and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

    NIV John 2:17
    His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me."
    NIV John 6:31
    Our forefathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written: `He gave them bread from heaven to eat.' "

    NIV John 6:45
    It is written in the Prophets: `They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.

    NIV John 12:14-16
    14. Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written,
    15. "Do not be afraid, O Daughter of Zion; see, your king is coming, seated on a donkey's colt."
    16. At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him.

    NIV John 15:25
    But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: `They hated me without reason.'

    NIV John 20:30-31
    30. Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
    31. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

    NIV Acts 1:20
    "For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms, "`May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, "`May another take his place of leadership.'

    NIV Acts 7:42
    But God turned away and gave them over to the worship of the heavenly bodies. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets: "`Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings forty years in the desert, O house of Israel?

    NIV Acts 13:29
    When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb.

    NIV Acts 13:32-33
    32. "We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers
    33. he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: "`You are my Son; today I have become your Father. '

    NIV Acts 15:15-18
    15. The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
    16. "`After this I will return and rebuild David's fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it,
    17. that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things'
    18. that have been known for ages.

    NIV Acts 23:5
    Paul replied, "Brothers, I did not realize that he was the high priest; for it is written: `Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people.' "

    NIV Acts 24:14
    However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,
    and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

    NIV Romans 1:17
    For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

    NIV Romans 2:24
    As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

    NIV Romans 3:4
    Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."

    NIV Romans 3:10-12
    10. As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
    11. there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
    12. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

    NIV Romans 4:17
    As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.

    NIV Romans 4:23-24
    23. The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone,
    24. but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

    NIV Romans 8:36
    As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

    NIV Romans 9:13
    Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

    NIV Romans 9:33
    As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

    NIV Romans 10:15
    And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

    NIV Romans 11:7-10
    7. What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,
    8. as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day."
    9. And David says: "May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
    10. May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever."

    NIV Romans 11:26-27
    26. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
    27. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

    NIV Romans 12:19
    Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.

    NIV Romans 14:11
    It is written: "`As surely as I live,' says the Lord, `every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'"

    NIV Romans 15:3-4
    3. For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me."
    4. For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

    NIV Romans 15:7-12
    7. Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
    8. For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs
    9. so that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy, as it is written: "Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to your name."
    10. Again, it says, "Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people."
    11. And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles, and sing praises to him, all you peoples."
    12. And again, Isaiah says, "The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; the Gentiles will hope in him."

    NIV Romans 15:21
    Rather, as it is written: "Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand."

    NIV 1 Corinthians 1:19
    For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

    NIV 1 Corinthians 1:31
    Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

    NIV 1 Corinthians 2:9
    However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him" --

    NIV 1 Corinthians 3:19-20
    19. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness" ;
    20. and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile."

    NIV 1 Corinthians 4:6
    Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

    NIV 1 Corinthians 9:9
    For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned?

    NIV 1 Corinthians 10:7
    Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry."

    NIV 1 Corinthians 10:11
    These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.

    NIV 1 Corinthians 14:21
    In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.

    NIV 1 Corinthians 15:45
    So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

    NIV 1 Corinthians 15:54
    When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

    NIV 2 Corinthians 1:13-14
    13. For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that,
    14. as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    NIV 2 Corinthians 4:13-14
    13. it is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak,
    14. because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence.

    NIV 2 Corinthians 8:15
    as it is written: "He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little."

    NIV Galatians 3:10
    All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

    NIV Galatians 3:13
    Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

    NIV Galatians 4:22
    For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.

    NIV Galatians 4:27
    For it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband."

    NIV Hebrews 10:7
    Then I said, `Here I am-- it is written about me in the scroll-- I have come to do your will, O God.'"

    NIV 1 Peter 1:15-16
    But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."

    NIV 2 Peter 3:16
    He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

    NIV 1 John 2:12-14
    12. I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
    13. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father.
    14. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.
  • Proverb 21 [Prayer and Meditation]

    04/21/2014 8:26:14 AM PDT · 1 of 4
    Easter may be over, but now the work begins. So many spend one day a year worshiping God and praising Him for the gift He gave us by sacrificing His Son so that we may be free of the slavery of sin. Yet the next day they return to their life as if Easter day was just another celebration on the calender.

    Today is the day we should step out in faith and reach those who are lost, touch those who are confused, and share the Gospel with the world.

  • Pray For the Peace of Jerusalem(4/21/14)[Prayer]

    04/21/2014 8:25:32 AM PDT · 10 of 10
    left that other site to Alamo-Girl

    Pray For the Peace of Jerusalem

    Thank You, Alamo-Girl, For Your Prayers For The Peace of Jerusalem, For Our FRiends in Need, For Persecuted Believers, and For Our Beloved Nation.

    Blessings To All Who Visit This Garden of Prayer.

    Hallelujah and Amen


  • Pray For the Peace of Jerusalem(4/21/14)[Prayer]

    04/21/2014 8:24:30 AM PDT · 9 of 10
    left that other site to etabeta

    Pray For the Peace of Jerusalem

    Thank You, etabeta, For Your Prayers For The Peace of Jerusalem, For Our FRiends in Need, For Persecuted Believers, and For Our Beloved Nation.

    Blessings To All Who Visit This Garden of Prayer.

    Hallelujah and Amen


  • Is the Church Over the Bible, or the Bible Over the Church?

    04/21/2014 8:24:12 AM PDT · 62 of 65
    Elsie to G Larry
    There was no Christian canon until the 4th century, so what was the authority prior to that point?

    Well; there WAS; it was just scattered all over the place.

  • Catholic Word of the Day: ROSMINIANISM, 04-16-14

    04/21/2014 8:22:36 AM PDT · 90 of 94
    Elsie to daniel1212

    What celebration of Resurrection Sunday would be complete without the neverending C vs P food fight?

  • Pray For the Peace of Jerusalem(4/21/14)[Prayer]

    04/21/2014 8:21:31 AM PDT · 8 of 10
    Alamo-Girl to left that other site

    I join in prayer for Israel, Jerusalem and all God’s beloved.

  • Bible Critic Says Jesus Isn't God, Stephen Colbert Leaves Him Speechless (Video)

    04/21/2014 8:12:02 AM PDT · 70 of 70
    Cicero to redgolum

    Yes, I sometimes do the readings at Mass. I do the best I can, but the NASB is not an inspiring translation, and hard to make it really sound biblical.

    I’m afraid you’re right, that the Bishops’ main concern seems to be copyright ownership. If they used the RSV or whatever, less money would flow their way.

    And the HQ for copyrighted texts and lousy, post-Vatican-II hymns is Portland, Oregon, which is not exactly a center of traditional liturgy.

  • Texas church creates 17,000-square-foot Jesus visible by planes

    04/21/2014 8:11:56 AM PDT · 102 of 102
    Gamecock to stars & stripes forever
    You asked me a specific question. I looked for clarification. I can only assume I answered to your satisfaction as you did not provide any further comments on what I said.

    If your megachurch is solid, good.

    But I did not say all megachurches are bad. There are enough bad ones out there that when they go astray it brings discredit to Jesus. That's what the YBPDLN ping lis is all about.

  • Catholic Caucus: Daily Mass Readings, 04-21-14, SOL, Monday in the Octave of Easter

    04/21/2014 8:11:43 AM PDT · 25 of 25
    Salvation to All
    Interactive Saints for Kids

    St. Anselm

    Feast Day: April 21
    Born: 1033 :: Died: 1109

    Anselm was born at Aosta, Piedmont in Italy to wealthy parents. He could see the Alpine Mountains from his home. As a child he was taught how to be holy and study well. When he was fifteen, Anselm tried to join a monastery in Italy but his father would not let him.

    Then Anselm became sick. Soon after he got better, his mother died. He was still young and rich and clever and began to think only of having good times. He had forgotten God. But soon Anselm became bored and wanted something better, something more important.

    He argued with his father and ran away to France. There he visited the holy Abbot Lanfranc of the famous monastery of Bec. Anselm became Lanfranc's very close friend and the abbot brought him to God. Then at the age of twenty-seven, Anselm decided to become a Benedictine monk.

    Anselm was a warm-hearted man who loved his brother monks dearly. Even those who first disliked him soon became his friends. When he was forty-five years old he was made the abbot of Bec.

    He finally had to leave Bec to become archbishop of Canterbury in England, but he told the monks that they would always live in his heart. The people of England loved and respected Anselm. But King William II treated him badly.

    Anselm had to leave the country and flee into exile in 1097 and again in 1103. King William even refused to let Anselm go to Rome to see the pope for advice. But Anselm went anyway. He stayed with the pope until the king died. Then he went back to his parish in England.

    Even though he had many duties that kept him very busy, St. Anselm always found time to write important books of philosophy and theology. He also wrote down the many wonderful instructions he had given the monks about God.

    They were very happy about that. He used to say: "Would you like to know the secret of being happy in the monastery? Forget the world and be happy to forget it. The monastery is a real heaven on earth for those who live only for Jesus."

    St. Anselm died on April 21, 1109. He was declared a great teacher or Doctor of the Church.

  • Texas church creates 17,000-square-foot Jesus visible by planes

    04/21/2014 8:09:30 AM PDT · 101 of 102
    buffaloguy to lupie

    James 2:26
    For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

    Thank you for your questions and charges as it has served to solidify my belief that I am a field guy for Jesus. Always will be.

    One of the problems you and I are having is that there is a missionary culture which is rather different than most people would expect. I had not realized how far inside that culture my wife and are.

    Preaching comes in many different forms. Music, formal sermons, action taken to help a person or family in trouble.

    For missionaries it is very effective to be of service to others. It causes those people as well others to ask why you are doing these things and at that point we educate them about Jesus and the Bible. Mostly one on one preaching.

    Most missionaries have used this tool throughout the last 2,000 years because it works. And I mean it really works.

    I have preached short sermons to 250 or so people but that is not where my gifts lie. My gifts are in organization, logistics and most strongly in the area of promotion which is used in bringing Jesus to others and uplifting others in the light of Jesus’ sacrifice. And love for us.

    Each believer is imbued with gifts that are to be used for bringing others to Our Lord and Saviour or to edify the church. My wife’s gifts and my own are well suited to the field role.

    So as to your charges, I shall not address them directly but simply will refer you to the above.

  • Ever wondered what happened between Good Friday and Resurrection Sunday? Where did Jesus go?

    04/21/2014 8:07:42 AM PDT · 56 of 56
    oh8eleven to tioga
    Dead on Friday, still dead on Saturday, Sunday is the third day.
    Yeah, Sunday is the third day. So what?
    I questioned the comment that Jesus disappeared for three days.
    Since we knew where he was Friday and Sunday, he really only "disappeared" (i.e. not accounted for) for one day.
    If confusing people on this thread was my job, I'd have been been on unemployment long before you piped in.
  • Catholic Caucus: Daily Mass Readings, 04-21-14, SOL, Monday in the Octave of Easter

  • Texas church creates 17,000-square-foot Jesus visible by planes

    04/21/2014 7:59:32 AM PDT · 100 of 102
    .45 Long Colt to Joe 6-pack

    You still haven’t even attempted to make a biblical case, so I reiterate It doesn’t matter what men think. It only matters what God’s Word says on the topic.

    I’ve studied this a lot and I’m convinced all pictures of Christ are forbidden. I’ve posted links to articles discussing the question. That’s my view. By definition all pictures of Him are deceitful because we have no idea what He looked like. There is no way I will ever believe God approves of using a lie to spread the truth and I’m not changing my mind, so there is nothing more for me to say. I’m fine acknowledging we disagree and that’s that.

  • Catholic Caucus: Daily Mass Readings, 04-21-14, SOL, Monday in the Octave of Easter

    04/21/2014 7:57:04 AM PDT · 23 of 25
    Salvation to All
    Saint Anselm, Bishop & Doctor of the Church

    Saint Anselm,
    Bishop & Doctor of the Church
    Optional Memorial
    April 21st

    Crowning of the Virgin with Saint Anselm and other saints .
    Francesco Francia (v. 1450-1517/18)

    Saint Anselm was born in Aosta, Italy, and died in England. He was in the Benedictine monastery of LeBec in Normandy for around thirty years. In 1093, he became the Archbishop of Canterbury and Primate of England. He is called the Father of Scholastic Theology. In his defense of the Church he suffered much, including exile. His doctrinal works are among the most noteworthy examples of theology and medieval mysticism.

    Source: Daily Roman Missal, Edited by Rev. James Socías, Midwest Theological Forum, Chicago, Illinois ©2003

    O God, who led the Bishop Saint Anselm
    to seek out and teach the depths of your wisdom,
    grant, we pray,
    that our faith in you may so aid our understanding,
    that what we believe by your command
    may give delight to our hearts.
    Through our Lord Jesus Christ, your Son,
    who lives and reigns wiht you in the unity of the Holy Spiri,
    one God, for ever and ever. +Amen.

    First Reading: Ephesians 3:14-19
    For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of His glory He may grant you to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have power to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fulness of God.

    Gospel Reading: Matthew 7:21-29
    "Not every one who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to Me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and cast out demons in Your name, and do many mighty works in Your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you evildoers.'

    "Every one then who hears these words of Mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And every one who hears these words of Mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it."

    And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at His teaching, for He taught them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes.

    COMMUNIUM RERUM, ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS X ON ST. ANSELM OF AOSTA, Given at Rome at St. Peter's on the Feast of St. Anselm, April 21, 1909, in the eighth year of Our Pontificate.

    BENEDICT XVI, GENERAL AUDIENCE, Paul VI Audience Hall, Wednesday, September 23, 2009

    Saint Anselm

    Dear Brothers and Sisters,

    The Benedictine Abbey of Sant'Anselmo [St Anselm] is located on the Aventine Hill in Rome. As the headquarters of an academic institute of higher studies and of the Abbot Primate of the Confederated Benedictines it is a place that unites within it prayer, study and governance, the same three activities that were a feature of the life of the Saint to whom it is dedicated: Anselm of Aosta, the ninth anniversary of whose death occurs this year. The many initiatives promoted for this happy event, especially by the Diocese of Aosta, have highlighted the interest that this medieval thinker continues to rouse. He is also known as Anselm of Bec and Anselm of Canterbury because of the cities with which he was associated. Who is this figure to whom three places, distant from one another and located in three different nations Italy, France, England feel particularly bound? A monk with an intense spiritual life, an excellent teacher of the young, a theologian with an extraordinary capacity for speculation, a wise man of governance and an intransigent defender of libertas Ecclesiae, of the Church's freedom, Anselm is one of the eminent figures of the Middle Ages who was able to harmonize all these qualities, thanks to the profound mystical experience that always guided his thought and his action.

    St Anselm was born in 1033 (or at the beginning of 1034) in Aosta, the first child of a noble family. His father was a coarse man dedicated to the pleasures of life who squandered his possessions. On the other hand, Anselm's mother was a profoundly religious woman of high moral standing (cf. Eadmer, Vita Sancti Anselmi, PL 159, col. 49). It was she, his mother, who saw to the first human and religious formation of her son whom she subsequently entrusted to the Benedictines at a priory in Aosta. Anselm, who since childhood as his biographer recounts imagined that the good Lord dwelled among the towering, snow-capped peaks of the Alps, dreamed one night that he had been invited to this splendid kingdom by God himself, who had a long and affable conversation with him and then gave him to eat "a very white bread roll" (ibid., col. 51). This dream left him with the conviction that he was called to carry out a lofty mission. At the age of 15, he asked to be admitted to the Benedictine Order but his father brought the full force of his authority to bear against him and did not even give way when his son, seriously ill and feeling close to death, begged for the religious habit as a supreme comfort. After his recovery and the premature death of his mother, Anselm went through a period of moral dissipation. He neglected his studies and, consumed by earthly passions, grew deaf to God's call. He left home and began to wander through France in search of new experiences. Three years later, having arrived in Normandy, he went to the Benedictine Abbey of Bec, attracted by the fame of Lanfranc of Pavia, the Prior. For him this was a providential meeting, crucial to the rest of his life. Under Lanfranc's guidance Anselm energetically resumed his studies and it was not long before he became not only the favourite pupil but also the teacher's confidante. His monastic vocation was rekindled and, after an attentive evaluation, at the age of 27 he entered the monastic order and was ordained a priest. Ascesis and study unfolded new horizons before him, enabling him to rediscover at a far higher level the same familiarity with God which he had had as a child.

    When Lanfranc became Abbot of Caen in 1063, Anselm, after barely three years of monastic life, was named Prior of the Monastery of Bec and teacher of the cloister school, showing his gifts as a refined educator. He was not keen on authoritarian methods; he compared young people to small plants that develop better if they are not enclosed in greenhouses and granted them a "healthy" freedom. He was very demanding with himself and with others in monastic observance, but rather than imposing his discipline he strove to have it followed by persuasion. Upon the death of Abbot Herluin, the founder of the Abbey of Bec, Anselm was unanimously elected to succeed him; it was February 1079. In the meantime numerous monks had been summoned to Canterbury to bring to their brethren on the other side of the Channel the renewal that was being brought about on the continent. Their work was so well received that Lanfranc of Pavia, Abbot of Caen, became the new Archbishop of Canterbury. He asked Anselm to spend a certain period with him in order to instruct the monks and to help him in the difficult plight in which his ecclesiastical community had been left after the Norman conquest. Anselm's stay turned out to be very fruitful; he won such popularity and esteem that when Lanfranc died he was chosen to succeed him in the archiepiscopal See of Canterbury. He received his solemn episcopal consecration in December 1093.

    Anselm immediately became involved in a strenuous struggle for the Church's freedom, valiantly supporting the independence of the spiritual power from the temporal. Anselm defended the Church from undue interference by political authorities, especially King William Rufus and Henry I, finding encouragement and support in the Roman Pontiff to whom he always showed courageous and cordial adherence. In 1103, this fidelity even cost him the bitterness of exile from his See of Canterbury. Moreover, it was only in 1106, when King Henry I renounced his right to the conferral of ecclesiastical offices, as well as to the collection of taxes and the confiscation of Church properties, that Anselm could return to England, where he was festively welcomed by the clergy and the people. Thus the long battle he had fought with the weapons of perseverance, pride and goodness ended happily. This holy Archbishop, who roused such deep admiration around him wherever he went, dedicated the last years of his life to the moral formation of the clergy and to intellectual research into theological topics. He died on 21 April 1109, accompanied by the words of the Gospel proclaimed in Holy Mass on that day: "You are those who have continued with me in my trials; as my Father appointed a kingdom for me, so do I appoint for you that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom..." (Lk 22: 28-30). So it was that the dream of the mysterious banquet he had had as a small boy, at the very beginning of his spiritual journey, found fulfilment. Jesus, who had invited him to sit at his table, welcomed Anselm upon his death into the eternal Kingdom of the Father.

    "I pray, O God, to know you, to love you, that I may rejoice in you. And if I cannot attain to full joy in this life may I at least advance from day to day, until that joy shall come to the full" (Proslogion, chapter 14). This prayer enables us to understand the mystical soul of this great Saint of the Middle Ages, the founder of scholastic theology, to whom Christian tradition has given the title: "Magnificent Doctor", because he fostered an intense desire to deepen his knowledge of the divine Mysteries but in the full awareness that the quest for God is never ending, at least on this earth. The clarity and logical rigour of his thought always aimed at "raising the mind to contemplation of God" (ibid., Proemium). He states clearly that whoever intends to study theology cannot rely on his intelligence alone but must cultivate at the same time a profound experience of faith. The theologian's activity, according to St Anselm, thus develops in three stages: faith, a gift God freely offers, to be received with humility; experience, which consists in incarnating God's word in one's own daily life; and therefore true knowledge, which is never the fruit of ascetic reasoning but rather of contemplative intuition. In this regard his famous words remain more useful than ever, even today, for healthy theological research and for anyone who wishes to deepen his knowledge of the truths of faith: "I do not endeavour, O Lord, to penetrate your sublimity, for in no wise do I compare my understanding with that; but I long to understand in some degree your truth, which my heart believes and loves. For I do not seek to understand that I may believe, but I believe in order to understand. For this also I believe, that unless I believed, I should not understand" (ibid., 1).

    Dear brothers and sisters, may the love of the truth and the constant thirst for God that marked St Anselm's entire existence be an incentive to every Christian to seek tirelessly an ever more intimate union with Christ, the Way, the Truth and the Life. In addition, may the zeal full of courage that distinguished his pastoral action and occasionally brought him misunderstanding, sorrow and even exile be an encouragement for Pastors, for consecrated people and for all the faithful to love Christ's Church, to pray, to work and to suffer for her, without ever abandoning or betraying her. May the Virgin Mother of God, for whom St Anselm had a tender, filial devotion, obtain this grace for us. "Mary, it is you whom my heart yearns to love", St Anselm wrote, "it is you whom my tongue ardently desires to praise".

  • Canonization of popes John Paul II, John XXIII to draw millions to Rome

    04/21/2014 7:56:49 AM PDT · 41 of 41
    Biggirl to SkyPilot

    Post 35 is correct, it is simple “respect and honor” NOT worship.

  • Canonization of popes John Paul II, John XXIII to draw millions to Rome

    04/21/2014 7:55:37 AM PDT · 40 of 41
    Biggirl to vladimir998

    What troubles me is putting one rite down over a another.

    Forgive me for being so hard, very exhusted from a busy Holy Easter weekend.

  • Canonization of popes John Paul II, John XXIII to draw millions to Rome

    04/21/2014 7:52:35 AM PDT · 39 of 41
    vladimir998 to Biggirl; piusv

    “Yet I also see traditional Catholics defend TLM which is on the verge of being idolatry of a certain mass rite.”

    Ouch! That’ll leave a mark.

  • Canonization of popes John Paul II, John XXIII to draw millions to Rome

    04/21/2014 7:51:13 AM PDT · 38 of 41
    vladimir998 to piusv

    “However, the reactions and defense I have seen by Catholics of recent popes most definitely verge on papal idolatry.”

    And you think Catholics treated Pius V or Innocent III or Pius IX with less honor than the last three popes? Really?

  • Canonization of popes John Paul II, John XXIII to draw millions to Rome

    04/21/2014 7:50:06 AM PDT · 37 of 41
    Biggirl to vladimir998

    BINGO! We have a winner!

  • Canonization of popes John Paul II, John XXIII to draw millions to Rome

    04/21/2014 7:48:58 AM PDT · 36 of 41
    Biggirl to piusv

    Yet I also see traditional Catholics defend TLM which is on the verge of being idolatry of a certain mass rite.

  • Catholic Caucus: Daily Mass Readings, 04-21-14, SOL, Monday in the Octave of Easter

    04/21/2014 7:48:19 AM PDT · 22 of 25
    Salvation to All
    Information: St. Anselmm, Archbishop and Doctor of the Church

    Feast Day: April 21

    Born: 1033 at Aosta, Piedmont, Italy

    Died: 21 April 1109 at Canterbury, England

    Canonized: 1492 by Pope Alexander IV

    Major Shrine: Canterbury Cathedral

  • Honoring Two Beloved Popes (Sainthood of John XXIII and John Paul II)

    04/21/2014 7:48:08 AM PDT · 1 of 1
  • Canonization of popes John Paul II, John XXIII to draw millions to Rome

    04/21/2014 7:47:47 AM PDT · 35 of 41
    vladimir998 to SkyPilot

    “Can you explain this contradiction to me?”

    There is no contradiction. No one worships the pope or an image of the pope.

    “Given this truth, explain to my why this is Biblical?”

    Treating images or people with respect is not unbiblical. Images were used in the Temple: 1 Kings 6:23
    People were treated with honor: 1 Kings 2:19

    I once asked a moronic anti-Catholic bigot who posted pictures just like the ones you posted how he proposed to his wife. Did he get on one knee? Did he attest to his love and devotion to her? Did he give her flowers and an expensive ring? You should have seen him scramble for an explanation of how that was all okay, but to treat the pope with respect was wrong! Hilarious.

  • This Easter a growing number of Catholic converts are joining the flock

    04/21/2014 7:46:17 AM PDT · 56 of 56
    Biggirl to piusv

    Yet non-Catholics come home to Rome all the same, so NO, Rome has NOT lost the FAITH.

  • Syria's Assad Visits Recaptured Christian Village

    04/21/2014 7:43:13 AM PDT · 12 of 12
    Salvation to marshmallow

    Prayer for Peace in Syria


    God of Compassion,
    Hear the cries of the people of Syria,
    Bring healing to those suffering from the violence,
    Bring comfort to those mourning the dead,
    Strengthen Syria’s neighbors in their care and welcome for refugees,
    Convert the hearts of those who have taken up arms,
    And protect those committed to peace.

    God of Hope,
    Inspire leaders to choose peace over violence and to seek reconciliation with enemies,
    Inspire the Church around the world with compassion for the people of Syria,
    And give us hope for a future of peace built on justice for all.

    We ask this through Jesus Christ,
    Prince of Peace and Light of the World,

    Petition: For the people of Syria, that God may strengthen the resolve of leaders to end the fighting and choose a future of peace.

  • VANITY - I hear people talking about the Bible says, "not to judge" - what say you?

    04/21/2014 7:42:55 AM PDT · 92 of 92
    ravenwolf to GBA

    ^^This^^ is the key. As near as I can tell, when we are told that a “rich man” will have trouble entering the kingdom of heaven, it’s not the money that’s the problem, it’s his spirit.

    That is good thinking, and also many people will say that the rich young man went to hell which I believe is a lack of understanding.

    When I was 15 or 16 I worked for a rich farmer who owned over 20,000 acres of land scattered over western Kansas.

    The day I went to work he told me that he only had one rule that would never change, he said that he had quite a few neighbors, some that he never even knew.

    He told me that if any of them came and ask me for help that I was to stop what I was doing and go help them.

    He was also paying me a mans wage of $7.50 a day, a week after I started he told me when i thought I was worth ten dollars a day to let him know.

    I worked another week and because it scared me to think that if he paid me that much I would be obligated to him for the rest of my life so I quit.

    That has been over 60 years ago and when I think of him I get all choked up, not to think of what I threw away but to think of the goodness in a man like that, they can not tell me that a rich man can not be saved.

  • Canonization of popes John Paul II, John XXIII to draw millions to Rome

    04/21/2014 7:39:54 AM PDT · 34 of 41
    SkyPilot to piusv
    In the traditional sense, I disagree that love and respect of our popes is idolatry.

    How is that reconciled with the Scriptures? Could not Peter or the angels have simply justified bowing before them as "love and respect?" Or did they reply No! - do not do that, because only God deserves that worship?

    However, the reactions and defense I have seen by Catholics of recent popes most definitely verge on papal idolatry.

    Agree. Why do you think that this behavior, which the Scripture clearly condemn in the strongest of terms, endures?

  • Canonization of popes John Paul II, John XXIII to draw millions to Rome

    04/21/2014 7:30:42 AM PDT · 33 of 41
    piusv to SkyPilot

    In the traditional sense, I disagree that love and respect of our popes is idolatry. However, the reactions and defense I have seen by Catholics of recent popes most definitely verge on papal idolatry.

  • Pray For the Peace of Jerusalem(4/21/14)[Prayer]

    04/21/2014 7:30:02 AM PDT · 7 of 10
    etabeta to left that other site

    Daily prayers for the Peace of Jerusalem, our FRiends in need and our beloved Nation.

    Blessings, etabeta

  • Ever wondered what happened between Good Friday and Resurrection Sunday? Where did Jesus go?

    04/21/2014 7:29:51 AM PDT · 55 of 56
    tioga to oh8eleven

    On the third day he rose again.....Dead on Friday, still dead on Saturday, Sunday is the third day. Easy, unless you are trying to confuse and distort.

  • Bible Critic Says Jesus Isn't God, Stephen Colbert Leaves Him Speechless (Video)

    04/21/2014 7:29:12 AM PDT · 69 of 70
    redgolum to Cicero
    By sucks I mean the flow and pacing. The translation is decent in most places. The New Jerusalem Bible is (in my opinion) better to read out loud from.

    But I grew up in a church were we put great store in the ability to read the Bible out loud in front of people. We LCMS people also had to memorize huge amounts of the Bible, and recite it on command in Sunday School, so having a good flowing translation is very important.

  • Is the Church Over the Bible, or the Bible Over the Church?

    04/21/2014 7:27:30 AM PDT · 61 of 65
    Terry L Smith to D-fendr

    D-fndr wrote:
    “You can use whatever version you wish. Theres nothin in the Bible that says you can’t pick whatever you want for yourself.”

    My point, exactly. Yet, that DID happen to ME, which is why I mentioned it.

    My first adult bible, was Today’s English Version, with the little drawings in it. Ergo, the Ezekiel reference.

    The pastor of a satellite-of-a-megachurch was the one who corrected me.

  • Bible Critic Says Jesus Isn't God, Stephen Colbert Leaves Him Speechless (Video)

    04/21/2014 7:23:51 AM PDT · 68 of 70
    redgolum to Cicero

    The English Standard Version (ESV) is in many ways the old RSV, with a few more notes.

    I grew up with the RSV. The pacing and wording of the ESV is close enough that I do not have any issues with it. There was supposed to be a Catholic version, but I know that got held up because the US Bishops wouldn’t have held the copyright.

    The NASB sucks. Just sucks. My brides priest admits it sucks.

  • This Easter a growing number of Catholic converts are joining the flock

    04/21/2014 7:20:38 AM PDT · 55 of 56
    piusv to Biggirl

    Rome is losing the Faith.

  • Canonization of popes John Paul II, John XXIII to draw millions to Rome

    04/21/2014 7:20:32 AM PDT · 32 of 41
    SkyPilot to vladimir998; Old Yeller

    Can you explain this contradiction to me? The angels themselves vehemently prohibit worship of themselves. So did Moses. So did Paul, so did Peter, and all the apostles. So did the prophets of God.

    8I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. 9But he said to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.”

    Revelation 22:8


    As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. 26 But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, “I am only a man myself.”

    Acts 10:25-26


    This attitude every man and woman should have. None of us are worthy of worship. We are to avoid idolatry in all circumstances, including the worship of humans (1 Corinthians 10:14). The synonyms of idolatry are idolization, fetishization, fetishism, idol worship, adulation, adoration, reverence, veneration, glorification, lionization, and hero-worshiping.

    Given this truth, explain to my why this is Biblical?

  • Ever wondered what happened between Good Friday and Resurrection Sunday? Where did Jesus go?

    04/21/2014 7:19:15 AM PDT · 54 of 56
    Kackikat to nonsporting

    Thanks, that was very helpful information.

  • Catholic Word of the Day: ROSMINIANISM, 04-16-14

    04/21/2014 7:16:36 AM PDT · 89 of 94
    daniel1212 to annalex; Springfield Reformer; metmom; redleghunter
    I will respond to a few key points; what you posted is too long to reply in detail.

    Same here i hope, after which i think little more if anything may be warranted.

    You invited me on this unrelated to anything thread because you wanted to discuss the statements of mine that expressed the said basis. Remember? So no, I don't think I was evading any questions.

    It developed into other aspects, while not seeing or side stepping the main issue, and then goading me for not playing into (using much time) what was at that point not the real issue, that of your real basis for assurance of Truth, and which drives and determines your assertions as to what Scripture means, yet i have engaged in Scripture meanings (again) extensively.

    The pillar and ground of all truth is the Catholic Church (1 Timothy 3:15)

    Indeed,. That's all it says. Using it to support Rome as being the supreme authority on Truth is reading into the text based on a pior presumption. Again.

    If you are puzzled why I listen to the Church but argue from the scripture, -- I believe I answered that as well: The Holy Church produced the inerrant scripture precisely because she wished to provide a set of absolutes from which to argue and understand the doctrine.

    Wrong. Most of Scripture was already est. as such before their was a church, and it based it Truth claims upon Scriptural substantiation in word and in power, with Scripture being the assured Word of God and transcendent standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims, as already substantiated.

    It was not based upon the premise of assured infallibility of the historical recipients of the divine promises of God's presence and preservation and stewardship of Scripture.

    More writings were written and established as Scripture, not as a project of a formal magisterium nor established due to being infallibly defined by it, but individuals wrote them as recording Divine acts and words and providing Divinely inspired exhortation and teaching the saints on the “whole counsel of God,” and revealing the future. These became established as Scripture like as OT writings and men of God did, essentially due to their Divine qualities and attestation, in conformity and complementation to that which was written prior.

    The church of Rome is critically different, from its basis for determining Truth, as the weight of Scriptural substantiation is not the basis for the veracity of her teachings, but it is the premise of her assured veracity as the supreme authority over Scripture, and which she reduces to being one of two servants to serve her interests.

    So, the texts of John 6, the three synoptic accounts of the Last Supper and 1 Cor. 11

    I have already refuted this attempt to employ Scripture to support your tradition, but the issue remains that Scripture cannot be the real basis for your assurance of doctrine, as that sanctions the evangelical use of human reasoning in objectively examining evidence to determine the veracity of Truth claims, versus relying on a supposedly infallible magisterium. Which is why souls followed an itinerant Preacher who reproved the magisterium by Scripture, and which magisterium rejected Him as having no valid authority. (Mk. 11:27-33)

    Instead, your interpretation of Scripture is driven by the premise that the Latin church (Rome) is infallible, and thus Scripture (etc.) only authoritatively means what she says it does or what supports her. And thus a RC is not to “consistently seek after truth when he is convinced that he holds it,” “All that we do [as must be patent enough now] is to submit our judgment and conform our beliefs to the authority Almighty God has set up on earth to teach us; this, and nothing else” (John H. Stapleton, Henry G. Graham), and so much more as previously supplied.

    Thus you go on to say, or confess,

    I am right because I learn from the Church who is both infallible and right,.

    Therefore you admit your claim to veracity is not really because objective examination of Scripture concludes this, and is the basis for veracity, but instead you assert Scripture supports the Church as both infallible and right because she defines herself as both infallible and right. Based upon this you may try to argue that Scripture provides warrant for deciding (using unreliable fallible human reasoning), to submit to Rome as the infallible magisterium, and who provides your assurance, but the reason you hold Scripture itself as having any weight is because Rome has decreed it does, and determined it supports her. Yet although this is driven by an a priori position, this is why i addressed the reasoning behind it.

    For as shown, having promises of Divine presence and preservation, and being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation neither required nor equated to perpetual assured infallibility of office, which is only presumed by Rome, who is a law unto herself. And in fact often God provided and preserved Truth by raising up men from without the formal magisterium to reprove it, and thus the church began in dissent from those who were the recipients and stewards of the above. And thus even arguing from Scripture as a merely reliable historical document means one can see the assuredly infallible magisterium is not needed or promised.

    Meanwhile, the principal of Scriptural substantiation requires continued manifestation of the gospel of regeneration, not by self-proclamation propaganda as being the church of the living God, and supposing historical descent supports perpetual assured infallibility, while Rome is more form than resurrection power, being overall like a dead (liberal) lion. “For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.' (1 Corinthians 4:20)

    There is absolutely nothing in Jn. 14 about Peter or perpetuated leadership being promised assured infallibility

    • Read the holy Scripture every once in a while and you will discover amazing things.

    Your recourse to this type of “spitball” simply testifies to your lack of actual support as you wrest meanings out of Scripture that simply are not there.

    • (John 14:17, several similar in the chapter) So the spirit is (1) of truth; (2) is known and received in the Church rather than in the world; (3) abides in the Church. That is not infallibility?

    No it is not, as i showed you, and simply repeating it will not provide it. The whole organized church does not have the Spirit abiding in it, as not all are born again, including some of your popes (if any of “succession”), unless we make a mockery of Biblical regeneration. You are continually forcing Scripture to conform with Rome to say what it does not, or more than it provides.

    You say no more i see that warrants more refutation till we come to,

    • (Matthew 16:19) Observe: second person singular, "thou" -- that is to Peter personally. You have to read the scripture and see its authority even in matters you "dissent" about.

    It actually never says “thou” in the Greek, but in the beginning it says “thee” and so “thou” is later supplied, yet the power of binding and loosing is given to all the apostles in Mt. 18, and not as coming from Peter thus the unique exaltation in power is simply not there. As someone said, “ You have to read the scripture and see its authority even in matters you "dissent" about.”

    • The popes are there to protect the Gospel from charlatans and nothing says that popes should act like royalty;

    That has not been the Roman translations as shown, and there is nothing to prevent it, but the exalted position (which allows devils to be popes) and autocratic power of the pope itself is after the world, and not after NT Scripture.

    • ut not for a doctrinal error; it was Peter who initiated baptizing the Gentiles

    After their regeneration by faith, not for it.

    "The Pope’s authority is unlimited, incalculable; it can strike, as Innocent III says, wherever sin is; it can punish every one; it allows no appeal" ...

    • Good quote. So you understand now that this is spiritual authority above all else, and political authority and imperial attitude, when it accompanies the Pope at all, -- all men are different, and all are sinners, -- is secondary to the spiritual authority?

    Regardless, Scripture does not teach an autocratic exalted papacy Sovereign Caprice with all rights reigning above all with incalculable power, and can make every rule, every doctrine, every demand, into a certain and incontestable article of Faith, with the tribunal of God and of the pope being one and the same. All such “Whatsoever ye shall” bind or ask promises are true, but are never restricted to one person nor unconditional.

    And authority to rule over those without is not given to the church, which is never seen exercising it, “for Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36)For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?” (1 Corinthians 5:12)

    it means for Rome that the office of Peter uniquely posses assured infallibility

    • Not true, the Church is infallible as a whole as well.

    You misunderstand. Peter uniquely possesses assured infallibility as a person, autocratically, without the consent of anyone, and thus is held as not being able to be disposed (without his consent.)

    Mt. 18:15-20 simply is not referring to binding and loosing in doctrinal legislative action

    • Really? Where is that in the Bible?

    In the text, which simply refers dealing with personal offenses as i showed you, though as said, in principal it has a wider application. Don't be insolent.

    loosing can refer to being “loosed from thine infirmity”

    • Or loosing a dog, or a belt. Words are funny that way: they can apply to many different things.

    So you understand now that this refers to spiritual authority, or does that need to be explained? Don't be insolent.

    This is where you have been heading as you must force all to support Rome, which is a law unto herself, so there is little sense to continue this exchange.