Posted on 05/11/2018 7:25:14 AM PDT by ebb tide
I believe one of the characteristics of a cult, is that it’s members claim that their “religion,” is the only one, and they, with their haughty, self righteousness, have a lock on the truth. There are quite a few “religions” that claim to be the only true church. There are 3 of them, right here, where I live, all claiming, they are the ONLY true church. I don’t accept ANY of them.
False as the messages from the apparition claiming to be Mary are.
The Great Apostasy is going to be far worse than this.
You are at odds with Roman Catholic dogma if you believe this.
Doesn't your denomination claim there is no salvation outside of the Catholic [meaning Roman Catholic] and that everyone is to be subject to the Roman Pontiff...We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
I realize many protestants refer to the “Catholic Church” as the Roman church.
You are entitled to falsely believe whatever you wish.
I wish you well and welcome you to learn the Truth at a Catholic Church.
Also the decision is not made on our death. The moment we accept Christ’s atoning sacrifice on our behalf we pass from death to life and our salvation is accomplished.
The Roman Church has no special corner on Truth. Truth is found in Scripture revealed by the Holy Spirit. It is open to anyone who seeks the Truth. Any sect pretending to control or have special access to a Truth is a cult. Flee from such.
To the Truth not a Truth
Your comment: “You are at odds with Roman Catholic dogma if you believe this.” You again make incorrect statements about the Catholic church.
In correcting Fr. Feeney in 1949, the Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office (now the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) issued a document entitled Suprema Haec Sacra, which stated that “ extra ecclesiam, nulla salus” (outside the Church, no salvation) is “an infallible statement.” But, it added, “this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church itself understands it.”
Note that word dogma. This teaching has been proclaimed by, among others, Pope Pelagius in 585, the Fourth Lateran Council in 1214, Pope Innocent III in 1214, Pope Boniface VIII in 1302, Pope Pius XII, Pope Paul VI, the Second Vatican Council, Pope John Paul II, and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Dominus Iesus.
Our point is this: When the Church infallibly teaches extra ecclesiam, nulla salus, it does not say that non-Catholics cannot be saved. In fact, it affirms the contrary. The purpose of the teaching is to tell us how Jesus Christ makes salvation available to all human beings.
Because that is how Roman Catholics understand "Catholic Church".
I wish you well and welcome you to learn the Truth at a Catholic Church.
If "Catholic Church" doesn't mean Roman Catholic, then what does it mean?
If the dogma doesn't mean Roman Catholic why does it say everyone has to be subject to the ROMAN pontiff? Why not someone else?
Actually, the New Testament tells us how Jesus makes salvation available to all human beings.
8But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.” 12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
13for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”
Romans 10:8-13 NASB
“and welcome you to learn the Truth at a Catholic Church.
Unfortunately, it will be a partial truth, mixed with paganism to pervert the simple saving truth of the Gospel of Grace.
So much so wrong in so few words.
Nobody who is a follower of Christ believes IN a church. they believe in a person.
It's not a church that saves that we should believe in it. It's a person who saves that we should believe in HIM.
And again, you've demonstrated that it's just beyond the comprehension of Catholics that we do not follow man as they have been conditioned to do.
Jesus never said He was going to *found* a church. He said He was going to BUILD HIS church.
Truth is found in God's word, not Roman Catholicism.
John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
Read Revelation 2&3.
That lists seven separate churches with different issues in each one.
There were local assemblies in Galatia, Ephesus, Philippi, Colossae, Thessalonaca, Corinth, Antioch, Laodocea, Jerusalem, to name a few.
There is no indication of one single entity headed up by Rome.
We do it because all of Catholicism is not under one head.
The EO do not adhere to the doctrines of Rome and by using the generic term of *Catholic* when addressing something specific to Rome, that would by default include the EO.
Since the error being addressed is specific to Rome and not the EO, it would be wrong to include the EO in something they don't agree with or adhere to in the first place.
As for the nonsense about them being in communion, the Great Schism happened in 1054 and the Roman Rite and the EO have been at odds since then with each side claiming that they are the original form of Catholicism as it was established by the apostles, and the other being the ones in schism.
And I actually see the EO holding to a more Scriptural view of Christianity than Rome does.
IOW, the Roman church doesn't mean what it says.
It means what the RCC says it means.
It's all the same excuses made for your current pope.
It was mistranslated, misunderstood, misinterpreted, misquoted, mis(fillintheblank).
If the Catholic church can't be trusted to communicate clearly enough to actually say what it means, then why should it be trusted in any other matter?
To your last question......they cannot be. It’s a classic sign of a cult when they play the “only we have the inside knowledge”card. It was one of the early problems the ekklesia had to contend with in refuting the Gnostics.
You are correct mom. It sounds like you have assurance of salvation. You realize, of course, that puts you in direct opposition to the Roman Church, which says you are guilty of committing the sin of presumption. 👍 So am I, by the way. The “sin of presumption,” is the only sin I love to commit. 🤣 I commit that sin 10,000 times a day. 😁
Now, if someone waits till they die, to see if they will “attain” Heaven, it’s an ironclad guarantee, they will wake up in the fires of Hell, and will wonder what happened.
Assurance of salvation is a beautiful thing. Everyone should try it. They will like it.
Well, see, that's the whole point! I don't believe in any church founded by man, I believe in Jesus Christ and it is this faith that places me within His universal body/assembly/church. You talk as if the "Church" is some kind of ethereal organization that has power and authority yet you don't seem to comprehend that the church is PEOPLE, believers in fellowship with other believers throughout the world from all times, places, nations and tongues. It is the faith of Jesus Christ which binds us to one another - that spiritual house - no matter what the sign might say on the door to our meeting place.
The commission to preach the gospel began with Jesus sending out His disciples and followers and they in turn sent out those they led to saving faith. Local assemblies were established and pastors, teachers, elders, deacons, etc. were set up to manage the household of God, the church of the living God, which is the buttress/support and foundation of the truth. This same commission exists today and our duties as servants of the Lord remain the same. Our guidebook is Holy Scripture, our rule of faith, given to us by God so that we are complete, fully equipped unto every good work for His glory. It IS one fold, one flock. Don't limit the work of the Holy Spirit to accomplish this.
Which is a fine thing but does not save anyone.
I have never said that anyone who was not a member of the Catholic Church could not be saved. That is a decision made by Jesus on all of us upon one’s death.
The salvation happens immediately upon the person putting their faith in Christ.
We are saved NOW and in the spiritual realm have been transferred from death to life where we are now seated with Christ in heaven.
There are lots of passages of Scripture which tell us that very thing.
John 1:10-13 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 6:2 For he says, “In a favorable time I listened to you, and in a day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the favorable time; behold, now is the day of salvation.
Romans 4:16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring-not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.
1 Corinthians 1:4-8 I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus,that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge—even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you—so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
2 Corinthians 5:4-8 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritanceuntil we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Philippians 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Colossians 1:13-14 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Colossians 2:13-14 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
Colossians 3:3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
1 Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Jude v24 "Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy"
1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Jude v24 "Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy"
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