Posted on 04/17/2018 8:56:07 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Have you been burned by a false prophecy? Did you lose your faith when a promised healing never came? Have you had it with flaky teaching in the name of "new revelation"? If so, you are not alone. There are more Charismatic casualties than many of us would care to admit.
But let me start here with an honest confession. My own experience in Pentecostal-Charismatic circles has been far more positive than negative. I have worked with the same leadership team for more than 20 years. I have had the privilege of serving with men and women of integrity all around the world – I'm talking about Pentecostal-Charismatic leaders around the globe.
I was saved in a Pentecostal church in 1971 and transformed by an outpouring of the Spirit in 1982. I was on the front lines of the Brownsville Revival from 1996-2000, and grads from our ministry school are bearing amazing fruit around the world. And while I have seen my share of scandals and false prophecies and leadership abuses and weirdness, it has been the exception far more than the rule.
Sadly, for many others, the opposite has proved true. For them, there is little or nothing good in the Pentecostal-Charismatic movement. They have been hurt or confused or abused, causing some to reject the move of the Spirit today and causing others to lose their faith entirely. My heart breaks over all these Charismatic casualties, and it is high time that we set our house in order.
I recently read a book critiquing the movement, and in my opinion, it was totally over the top in its criticisms.
Putting aside the scriptural errors I found in the book, it painted a terribly caricatured picture, one that was so exaggerated it was hardly recognizable to me. Yet as I read reviews to the book posted by readers, I saw that many of them were adding their hearty Amen. The picture it painted was all too familiar to them.
I'm aware, of course, that every church (or ministry or denomination or leader) has its critics. You can find horror stories everywhere, and if a church or ministry is big enough, you can find lots of negative reports from those who were allegedly burned by that church or ministry. But when you hear the same story over and over again from people from varied backgrounds, you know that something, somewhere is wrong.
When it comes to the Pentecostal-Charismatic movement, there is no shortage of amazing stories of what the Lord is doing in virtually every nation on the planet. This is truly a stunning, Jesus-exalting, multi-generational work of the Holy Spirit. I see no way to deny that for a split second.
Even more importantly, based on Scripture, I find it indisputable that the gifts and power of the Spirit are to continue in operation until Jesus returns.
But that doesn't minimize the damage that has been done in the name of the Spirit, and there are all too many casualties because of unchecked abuses. Out of love for the Lord and love for His people, we need to step higher.
Although my new book, "Playing with Holy Fire", just came out a few days ago, I'm already seeing a pattern in the reviews being posted by readers.
One reader wrote, "Dr. Michael Brown's very timely and balanced work really addressed where I am right now: disillusioned and heartbroken over the abuses of the contemporary church (this goes beyond the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement, though it is centered there). Furthermore, he encouraged my heart, showing me that I am not alone, and providing a Biblical way forward."
Another commented on Facebook that reading the book was bringing them healing from the negative experiences they had in our circles. Still another wrote, "As a former cessationist who was a cessationist BECAUSE of the abuse I saw happening in exercising the Holy Spirit's gifts, it concerns me too. Both because these abuses keep a very large section of the church away from desiring and pursuing something God wants them to have, but also because it harms our testimonies among unbelievers. This book will definitely be going to the top of my reading list!"
Other pastors and leaders are saying, "At last! These abuses needed to be addressed."
So, while I rejoice in what the Spirit is doing around the world, I grieve over the many who have been hurt and disillusioned because of human error and human sin and human carelessness. Truly, we have been given much by the Lord. And that means that much will be required of us.
May we walk worthy of the Holy Spirit's high calling. And may the name of Jesus be exalted, not tarnished, by our lives and ministries as Pentecostal and Charismatic believers.
The stakes are way too high to play games.
https://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3648187/posts?page=80#80
Forgot to add you to the list.
I’m a charismatic Pentecostal who is an old hand at deconstructing the NAR, with a similar background as described by Pastor Bill Randles in his excellent books, but Cessationists are heretics as well.
It’s almost black comedy to assume that the gifts of the Holy Spirit given at Pentecost was just for the Jewish believers and their Gentile converts of the 1st century church. It’s beyond weird, and probably antiChrist to believe so, if you call yourself a Christian who has read the new testament!
Wait, you disagree with the Apostle Paul?
I don’t have the time or patience for fighting an old battle with Montanists. Do me a favor. imardmd1 will give you plenty of the time which I won’t. Read and reply to his excellent post #76 and then ping me so I can follow. I’m looking forward to your response. Until then, bodddahonda shuddaboddadassun!
I don’t have the time or patience for fighting an old battle with Cessationists...
(or their demonic counterparts/apparent opposites in the NAR, either...)
But the whole truth of the Word must be preached.
My response to imardmd1 (again): https://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3648187/posts?page=80#80
I don’t have the time or patience for fighting an old battle with Cessationists...
(or their demonic counterparts/apparent opposites in the NAR, either...)
But the whole truth of the Word must be preached.
My response to imardmd1 (again): https://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3648187/posts?page=80#80
Nope because my faith is not based on a church, a man or anything built by man.
All religions will eventually fail.
All Governments will eventually fail.
The only ting in life that is ultimately important is the 10-20 people closest to you.
Stand around waiting for Jesus to save you means you will be the first to be rounded up and arrested when it all starts to collapse.
It has happened many times in the past.
It can easily happen again.
That is what I was addressing.
Or he was humping his recent book. I am no less skeptical of supposed Christian authors than I am of those he mentioned in his article.
So on what basis are you making that judgment?
These are not "gifts of the Spirit." This is another phase of the HERESY which first came to fruition with the Montanists. Don't give them any room to call it "gifts" and was revived with the Azusa Street Pentecostal Movement in LA in 1910.
I looked back at the post to which you replied and cannot figure out how your response is relevant to that.
One preacher I heard said that the better question wasn’t whether the gifts are for today or not, and in spite of his otherwise VERY conservative theological stand, he thinks they are, but the better question would be if what is practiced by the Pentecostal church today as the gift of tongues is the same gift as it was practiced in the NT, and at that point, he says not.
I would have to agree with him. I don’t see that the gifts listed in 1 Corinthians 12 have ever been rescinded but I also do not see them being practiced as Paul instructed and I don’t think that what they are listed as is the same as how they are begin defined these days.
I didn’t mean to be overly critical but I think you were just hesitant to call it an outright heresy. This is pure and simple Montanism, denounced in an earlier era but tolerated in Christian churches today, tolerated to the point that it dominates the local churches.
Well said!
Call what outright heresy?
Please explain what you mean by your functioning "in the full gifts of the Spirit". We know from Scripture that NO ONE receives every gift:
Some Pentecostals/Charismatics have asserted that unless one speaks in tongues, he/she ISN'T baptized by the Holy Spirit. Do you believe that, too?
Some Pentecostals/Charismatics assert that the gift of tongues is for the believer in order to "pray in the Spirit". Does that mean someone who doesn't have the gift of tongues cannot pray in the Spirit?. What do you say?
Though I have seen personally the miracle of interpretation of tongues, once by a Preacher whom John McArthur respected (or said he did) and once by an absolute heathen who knew five languages, but knew she was being prayed for by this person in a prayer to Jesus, but then stopped understanding what was being prayed in tongues over her once she realized she had absolutely no idea what language it was being spoken.
Tongues is not the test of being truly Spirit filled or not, anyway, despite what some charismatics preach: some speak in tongues, some don't.
Yet, we have to ask, are we truly under a different dispensation or anointing than John the Baptist's disciples who spoke in tongues and prophesied once they received the "baptism of the Holy Spirit"?
Are we under a different anointing or are we in some different dispensation than Peter in the upper room with Mary and the others, when the Spirit fell?
If so, then where are the instructions for this "gift-less" Church?
The functionality and workings of the Holy Spirit in the life of a Christian is a given throughout the entire New Testament.
Which is part of the reason whey Jesus tell us:
"For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it."
You are confusing positional gifts and gifts of the spirit. Personally, I function in the full gifts of the Spirit appropriated to me...
... and use them whenever I can to alert the saints to the problem of counterfeits, familiar spirits and liars of the NAR false prophetic movement. It drives those people crazy, cause I know their game and how they slaughter true faith in believers’ lives.
It’s just a manner of speaking to say I believe the gifts are for today.
Are we to take what Paul said, that “all are to be ambitious to prophesy” as the idea that we can obtain more giftings from God as our faith grows?
I don’t know the answer to this.
But to deny tongues for example, would be denying that the Word of God is true, that John’s disciples didn’t really speak in tongues or that Peter himself didn’t speak in another language that day of Pentecost.
(It’s called Peter’s “this is that” speech. This is that of which the Prophet Joel prophesied... that God will pour out His spirit on all mankind... etc.)
Who are we to dismiss the idea that these gifts, positional and functional, were somehow only relegated to the 1st Century Jewish believers and converted Gentiles to Christ among them?
Nuts to that nonsense. The Lord requires us to be fully equipped by the purposing and unction of His Holy Spirit to face this evil day.
Who are we to say these gifts, positional and functional, were somehow only relegated to the 1st Century Jewish believers and converted Gentiles to Christ among them?
Nuts to that nonsense. The Lord requires us to be fully equipped by the purposing and unction of His Holy Spirit to face this evil day.
P.S. Corrected the above sentence and I think I answered your questions in the above thread.
Tongues IS NOT a sign of being born again or spirit filled, but the Bible makes it clear that some will have the gift and so evidence of it cannot be denied or wished away, either.
I knew someone who was born again, and told Christ she did not want to speak in tongues, and instead felt a “strong, hot wind” blow through her living room when she prayed this prayer.
The Lord is a gentleman who will never overpower our free will!
I have had 2 or 3 tell me, one cannot even be saved, unless one speaks in tongues. I don’t know how widespread that feeling is, however. I don’t buy it.
Aw now, leave the good folks of the state of Montana outta this ..
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