Posted on 04/17/2018 8:56:07 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Have you been burned by a false prophecy? Did you lose your faith when a promised healing never came? Have you had it with flaky teaching in the name of "new revelation"? If so, you are not alone. There are more Charismatic casualties than many of us would care to admit.
But let me start here with an honest confession. My own experience in Pentecostal-Charismatic circles has been far more positive than negative. I have worked with the same leadership team for more than 20 years. I have had the privilege of serving with men and women of integrity all around the world – I'm talking about Pentecostal-Charismatic leaders around the globe.
I was saved in a Pentecostal church in 1971 and transformed by an outpouring of the Spirit in 1982. I was on the front lines of the Brownsville Revival from 1996-2000, and grads from our ministry school are bearing amazing fruit around the world. And while I have seen my share of scandals and false prophecies and leadership abuses and weirdness, it has been the exception far more than the rule.
Sadly, for many others, the opposite has proved true. For them, there is little or nothing good in the Pentecostal-Charismatic movement. They have been hurt or confused or abused, causing some to reject the move of the Spirit today and causing others to lose their faith entirely. My heart breaks over all these Charismatic casualties, and it is high time that we set our house in order.
I recently read a book critiquing the movement, and in my opinion, it was totally over the top in its criticisms.
Putting aside the scriptural errors I found in the book, it painted a terribly caricatured picture, one that was so exaggerated it was hardly recognizable to me. Yet as I read reviews to the book posted by readers, I saw that many of them were adding their hearty Amen. The picture it painted was all too familiar to them.
I'm aware, of course, that every church (or ministry or denomination or leader) has its critics. You can find horror stories everywhere, and if a church or ministry is big enough, you can find lots of negative reports from those who were allegedly burned by that church or ministry. But when you hear the same story over and over again from people from varied backgrounds, you know that something, somewhere is wrong.
When it comes to the Pentecostal-Charismatic movement, there is no shortage of amazing stories of what the Lord is doing in virtually every nation on the planet. This is truly a stunning, Jesus-exalting, multi-generational work of the Holy Spirit. I see no way to deny that for a split second.
Even more importantly, based on Scripture, I find it indisputable that the gifts and power of the Spirit are to continue in operation until Jesus returns.
But that doesn't minimize the damage that has been done in the name of the Spirit, and there are all too many casualties because of unchecked abuses. Out of love for the Lord and love for His people, we need to step higher.
Although my new book, "Playing with Holy Fire", just came out a few days ago, I'm already seeing a pattern in the reviews being posted by readers.
One reader wrote, "Dr. Michael Brown's very timely and balanced work really addressed where I am right now: disillusioned and heartbroken over the abuses of the contemporary church (this goes beyond the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement, though it is centered there). Furthermore, he encouraged my heart, showing me that I am not alone, and providing a Biblical way forward."
Another commented on Facebook that reading the book was bringing them healing from the negative experiences they had in our circles. Still another wrote, "As a former cessationist who was a cessationist BECAUSE of the abuse I saw happening in exercising the Holy Spirit's gifts, it concerns me too. Both because these abuses keep a very large section of the church away from desiring and pursuing something God wants them to have, but also because it harms our testimonies among unbelievers. This book will definitely be going to the top of my reading list!"
Other pastors and leaders are saying, "At last! These abuses needed to be addressed."
So, while I rejoice in what the Spirit is doing around the world, I grieve over the many who have been hurt and disillusioned because of human error and human sin and human carelessness. Truly, we have been given much by the Lord. And that means that much will be required of us.
May we walk worthy of the Holy Spirit's high calling. And may the name of Jesus be exalted, not tarnished, by our lives and ministries as Pentecostal and Charismatic believers.
The stakes are way too high to play games.
Say HI for me to knarf!
Y’all have a good breakfast!
:-)!
Right. New Testament prophecies can fail. Old Testament Prophets, who wrote the Word of God, their prophecies are the Word of God and have not and will not ever fail. The prophecies of small “p” prophets of the Church age, are not the Word of God and can fail. (Though this is not an excuse for outright false prophecy, which is always born of false teaching.)
Paul is talking about the New Testament gift of prophecy when he says “prophecies will fail”.
Jesus is talking about the entirety of the Bible when He said “heaven and earth shall pass away, but the Word is forever “or eternal.
Just to go all metaphysical on you, the Word is the Logos, i.e. the meaning behind the actual language of the Bible no matter what different language it is translated.
This Logos is God.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God... and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.”
This Word or Logos is God. This is why it is Eternal.
And to add to your definition of “prophecy”; it says in Revelation that “the testimony of Jesus is spirit of prophecy”. This means that as we stand in our testimony of Christ, we naturally are walking in a prophetic mode, same as Jesus. Cool huh?
I think that’s where there’s a lot of confusion today (over the meaning of the word *prophecy*)
So what we end up having is people who are (or think they are) OT kind of prophesying, instead of being gifted with an unusual ability to teach or apply the word to other’s lives with unusual clarity.
A definition given right in scripture and widely ignored within the church.
Just like with faith and people debating what it is when God tells us in Hebrews 11.
Well, I think enough of what God's Word has shown and affirmed to me to know that in giving this pronouncement, you've taken yourself too seriously and have gone way overboard; but I'm not so stuck on myself as to become offended or intimidated. We'll let His Scriptures determine the value of your estimate.
The problem is for us is how to be Bereans about these Gifts.
Rightly said, and I agree. I've been of a Berean mindset for a long time--open-minded--not closed-minded like the ignoble Thessalonikans, whose attitude one should beware of. The Bereans kept their options open long enough to check their existing TaNaKh to determine whether Paul's doctrine was true to as much of God's progressive revelation that they had in hand. It wasn't to them that Paul had to send disciplinary letters.
Considering that, it seems a bit strange to me that you would post these verses from Acts 19:1-7 without providing some explanation of how it is to be used to support your thesis of survival of sign gifts into today's Christian ministries.
Have you thought of why this passage (which probably resulted from Apollos' incomplete Gospel teaching at Ephesus) is placed at this juncture of Luke's history of Paul's travels? Have you figured out at which point in this account any of a dozen of theological students was born anew? Did they all make the same commitment to The Christ at the same moment? Or have you figured out why your translation omits the word "Christ" where the AV does not? And what was the correlation between Apollos, their teacher, having gone to Corinth before Paul arrived at Ephesus on his third apostolic journey, from whence he wrote the first canonical epistle to the Corinthian church? Or how does this pouring out of the Spirit compare to Saul bar Kish's experience, or Samuel's anointing of David? And why did Peter's preaching of The Faith to Cornelius' household result in a water baptism subsequent to the effusion of Spirit signs, whereas at Ephesus the water baptism preceded that display? And moreover, why did none of the 120 initial disciples present at the coming of the Holy Ghost require water baptism, when apparently the Ephesian disciples did? Why was it that these particular disciples at Ephesus did not know that a manifestation of the Holy Ghost's activity in a regenerated first-century follower of The Way was presumed, when the gospel had been preached there at Ephesus many years ago, with a following circle of believers existing since then?
I am not sure what you want me to assume from your citation. What does your bolding of verse 6 mean, especially regarding the continuance of the sign gifts?
There are a lot of ways to comment on your pointless reply. You'll need to give it some substance so I can get some wood on it.
But as the others have said, it does take some time, so let's economize. To me, the completion of the progressively revealed infallible, inerrant, plenarily, verbally, Written and Preserved Words of God which ended as of 100 A. D. is the "That Which Is Perfect (= Finished, Finalized)" that has displaced "That Which Was Partial (= Incomplete)" of which the glossolalia, the special prophetical magnifying of God's Name and Qualities, and exposition of the twelve previously mysterious doctrines is over with. So far, no preacher or Bible translation from thence even though helpful, edifying, and encouraging, has ever been found faultless. Nor have any Edgar Cayce-type future-tellers ever been found to be right on the button, all the time, as would have been expected of God's appointed mouthpiece, if such existed.
Nowhere have I ever claimed that The Holy Spirit ever ceased in supplementing our weaknesses, prayers, or physical, mental, and spiritual health when a truly regenerated Christ-follower leans on Him. But there is no substitute to being filled with the Spirit through permitting the Word of Christ to dwell in ones mind and heart in all wisdom, and admonishing each other through psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, making melody in ones heart unto the Lord. It is that kind of filling and the doing of it, that pleases The Father way beyond the level to which the exercising the once-partially-useful sign gifts could ever obtain.
I've been through all that FGBMFI, Demos Shakarian, Cross & Switchblade, speaking-in-tongues, seeking-hidden-knowledge, prosperity gospel approach. Through long and deep experimentation with it, I've found that it does not and cannot satisfy. It will never take you to the place where Spirit-led immersion in, and insightful application of God's Word gets you.
Just sitting down and prayerfully opening my faithfully translated Bible lets me know that it is The God, My Heavenly Father, and His Son right by me, speaking directly to me from the words recorded there. There is nothing better, than when He lifts me to another plane and shows me something I had not seen before, that I cannot find on my own, something precious, some golden nugget of truth, a key to sweeter relationships with fellow humans, a comfort for a sad heart. That is available and accessible to every one of His children, inexhaustible. That is the gift that keeps on giving.
Remember, You must die. You must. Are you really prepared for it? It is given to every human, even Jesus, once to die, but after that, the Judgment. What do you want to take to heaven? A growing and ever-deeper, richer fellowship with Him in His Word that will continue right along forever? Or a list of failed searches for easily-attained fulfillment of your wishes?
I'm looking forward to deeper and deeper Bible Study in Heaven, forever.
And from this we have the Bereans; considered MORE noble than the rest because of what???
Acts 17:11
Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
Some heads are too hard to just crack;
Unless they’ve received a GOOD whack!
With no catcher behind
one is likely to find,
pretty stars as they lie on their back.
“Without Love I am a noisy gong or clanging cymbal.”
Your post smelled more of swashbuckling than agape.
Sounds like a plan to me!
But there are WAY too many who look in that mirror then walk away.
Nods.
It is odd, but one finds great Holiness in the writings of some of the Catholic Saints and mystics.
Thus repeating the mistakes of the church in Corinth; where it was reported, one of the brethren was sleeping with his father’s wife, and yet the congregation was arrogant. I sometimes wonder whether the sexual immorality and greed among some of the ... famous church leaders, is related to the gratuity of the flocks.
Press forward to the Mercy of. Christ in repentance.
The Book indicates that it WILL!
Revelation 13:17 KJV
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Revelation 20:4
Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead
That would make as much sense as abandoning the Old Testament, because the Jews were disobedient to G_d, to the point that the curses in Deuteronomy were unleashed, to the point that Jews were reduced to eating their own children.
What does contemporary Rabbinic teaching say is the sin of the Jews that caused them to suffer the Holocaust, by the way?
We are instructed too, but how many of the leaders do it?
What’s Montanism?
Some of the prophecies have not been fulfilled (e.g. destruction of Damascus); others were conditional, e.g. Jonah and the destruction of Nineveh, but they repented.
What do you have against 3M? They gave us scotch tape and post-it notes...
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