Posted on 12/07/2017 5:16:35 PM PST by marshmallow
Pope Francis has called on the Roman Catholic Church to alter the Lord’s Prayer because he believes the current translation suggests God is capable of leading us “into temptation”.
Instead, “Our father”, which is the best known prayer in Christianity, should be said using the phrasing adopted by French bishops, which reads as “do not let us enter into temptation”.
The alternative wording used in France implies that it is through human fault that people are led to sin, rather than by God.
The pontiff made the suggestion during a televised interview on Wednesday evening, in which he claimed that the traditional phrasing was “not a good translation”.
“I am the one who falls. It’s not him pushing me into temptation to then see how I have fallen,” he continued. “A father doesn’t do that, a father helps you to get up immediately. It’s Satan who leads us into temptation, that’s his department.”
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
More bad teaching from Rome that Francis needs to fix!!
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Is Peter the 'rock'?
As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'
BEFORE the following verses came along.....
NIV 1 Corinthians 10:4
and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. NIV Luke 6:48
He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. NIV Romans 9:33
As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." NIV 1 Peter 2:4-8
4. As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him-- 5. you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6. For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 7. Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, " 8. and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for. But, since there WAS no NT at the time Christ spoke to Peter, just what DID Peter and the rest of the Disciples know about ROCKS??? NIV Genesis 49:24-25 24. But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel, 25. because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty, who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb. NIV Numbers 20:8
"Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink." NIV Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he. NIV Deuteronomy 32:15
Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior. NIV Deuteronomy 32:18
You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth. NIV Deuteronomy 32:30-31
30. How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up? 31. For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede. NIV 1 Samuel 2:2
"There is no one holy like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God. NIV 2 Samuel 22:2-3
2. He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; 3. my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior-- from violent men you save me. NIV 2 Samuel 22:32
For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? NIV 2 Samuel 22:47
"The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior! NIV 2 Samuel 23:3-4
3. The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: `When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God, 4. he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth.' NIV Psalms 18:2
The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold. NIV Psalms 18:31
For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? NIV Psalms 18:46
The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior! NIV Psalms 19:14
May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer. NIV Psalms 28:1
To you I call, O LORD my Rock; do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who have gone down to the pit.
NIV Psalms 31:2-3
2. Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me. 3. Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me. NIV Psalms 42:9
I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?" NIV Psalms 62:2
He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken. NIV Psalms 62:6
He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken. NIV Psalms 62:7
My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge. NIV Psalms 71:3
Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress. NIV Psalms 78:35
They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer. NIV Psalms 89:26
He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.' NIV Psalms 92:14-15
14. They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green, 15. proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him." NIV Psalms 95:1
Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation. NIV Psalms 144:1
Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. NIV Isaiah 17:10
You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress. NIV Isaiah 26:4
Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal. NIV Isaiah 30:29
And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel. NIV Isaiah 44:8
Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." NIV Habakkuk 1:12 O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish. |
And now you know the Biblical position!
At least the Early Church Fathers had it right!!
• Basil of Seleucia, Oratio 25:
'You are Christ, Son of the living God.'...Now Christ called this confession a rock, and he named the one who confessed it 'Peter,' perceiving the appellation which was suitable to the author of this confession. For this is the solemn rock of religion, this the basis of salvation, this the wall of faith and the foundation of truth: 'For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.' To whom be glory and power forever. — Oratio XXV.4, M.P.G., Vol. 85, Col. 296-297.
• Bede, Matthaei Evangelium Expositio, 3:
You are Peter and on this rock from which you have taken your name, that is, on myself, I will build my Church, upon that perfection of faith which you confessed I will build my Church by whose society of confession should anyone deviate although in himself he seems to do great things he does not belong to the building of my Church...Metaphorically it is said to him on this rock, that is, the Saviour which you confessed, the Church is to be built, who granted participation to the faithful confessor of his name. — 80Homily 23, M.P.L., Vol. 94, Col. 260. Cited by Karlfried Froehlich, Formen, Footnote #204, p. 156 [unable to verify by me].
• Cassiodorus, Psalm 45.5:
'It will not be moved' is said about the Church to which alone that promise has been given: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.' For the Church cannot be moved because it is known to have been founded on that most solid rock, namely, Christ the Lord. — Expositions in the Psalms, Volume 1; Volume 51, Psalm 45.5, p. 455
• Chrysostom (John) [who affirmed Peter was a rock, but here not the rock in Mt. 16:18]:
Therefore He added this, 'And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; that is, on the faith of his confession. — Chrysostom, Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew, Homily LIIl; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.iii.LII.html)
• Cyril of Alexandria:
When [Peter] wisely and blamelessly confessed his faith to Jesus saying, 'You are Christ, Son of the living God,' Jesus said to divine Peter: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church.' Now by the word 'rock', Jesus indicated, I think, the immoveable faith of the disciple.”. — Cyril Commentary on Isaiah 4.2.
• Origen, Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII):
“For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, 1 Corinthians 10:4 and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, and the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.'
“For all bear the surname ‘rock’ who are the imitators of Christ, that is, of the spiritual rock which followed those who are being saved, that they may drink from it the spiritual draught. But these bear the surname of rock just as Christ does. But also as members of Christ deriving their surname from Him they are called Christians, and from the rock, Peters.” — Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII), sect. 10,11 ( http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/101612.htm)
• Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II):
Thus our one immovable foundation, our one blissful rock of faith, is the confession from Peter's mouth, Thou art the Son of the living God. On it we can base an answer to every objection with which perverted ingenuity or embittered treachery may assail the truth."-- (Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II), para 23; Philip Schaff, editor, The Nicene & Post Nicene Fathers Series 2, Vol 9.
(Given to St. Dominic and Blessed Alan de la Roche)
| 1 | Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive powerful graces. |
| 2. | I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary. |
| 3. | The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies |
| 4. | It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of people from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means. |
| 5. | The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish. |
| 6. | Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying Himself to the consideration of its Sacred Mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise Him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just, he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life. |
| 7. | Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church. |
| 8. | Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plentitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the Saints in Paradise. |
| 9. | I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary. |
| 10. | The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven. |
| 11. | You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the Rosary. |
| 12. | All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities. |
| 13. | I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death |
| 14. | All who recite the Rosary are my children, and brothers and sisters of my only Son, Jesus Christ. |
| 15. | Devotion of my Rosary is a great sign of predestination. |
"The Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary to such an extent that there is no problem,
no matter how difficult it is, wheter temporal or above all spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families...that cannot be solved by the Rosary.
There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary."
Sister Lucia dos Santos
Bible says more than once God hardened Pharo’s heart. I think there are still many things no man understands about God.
SOME of us were in that state. If you were describing our need for a savior, ALL of us would have been in that state.
“Yes...you continue to repeat yourself.”
You’ve been repeating yourself. And?
“However you haven’t always used that tagline.”
And you didn’t whine on and on about other taglines I had. And?
Your post suggests you've always used that tagline.
However, the rule still applies...and will always apply regardless of your tagline.
Vlad's Rules of Debate #2....have a massive ego and approach others with a condescending attitude …see his tagline (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty).
“Your post suggests you’ve always used that tagline.”
In the very post you’re responding to (post #106) I said this: “And you didn’t whine on and on about other taglines I had.”
How can you claim my “post suggests” I “always used that tagline” when in the very post you’re responding to I said, “And you didn’t whine on and on about other taglines I had”?
“Vlad’s Rules of Debate #2....have a massive ego and approach others with a condescending attitude …see his tagline (Apparently I’m still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn’t empty).”
And I will merely cite your own words - which you hypocritically posted earlier: “...you continue to repeat yourself.”
Oh and....Vlad’s Rules of Internet Debate #10… Whatever I say is always right, because I said it.
I’m sure Frank has lots of changes he wants to make.
May as well start with the Lords prayer. S/
Oh, look another struck on eagleone.
If you’re going to claim I did something (e.g. “Your post suggests you’ve always used that tagline.”
At least don’t embarrass yourself by missing a statement like this in the very post you were responding to: “And you didn’t whine on and on about other taglines I had.”
The simple fact is I was right and you were not. If you want to claim that as “Whatever I say is always right, because I said it” go ahead. Everyone can see how you failed yet again. You’ll keep doing it too, of course.
Make sure you complain about my tagline again.
Vlad’s Rules of Internet Debate #8...feign being offended
Vlad’s Rules of Internet Debate #17…will attempt to shift the conversation when the argument is against him.
Vlad’s Rules of Internet Debate #20…he will declare “victory” when someone retires from the inane posts of his.
This is who you are. It's your nature.
As I said in a prior post...get some help vlad.
Have a good evening.
Englishman's Concordance πειρασμόν (peirasmon) — 11 Occurrences Matthew 6:13 N-AMS GRK: ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν ἀλλὰ ῥῦσαι NAS: And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver KJV: not into temptation, but deliver INT: us into temptation but deliver Matthew 26:41 N-AMS GRK: εἰσέλθητε εἰς πειρασμόν τὸ μὲν NAS: that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit KJV: not into temptation: the spirit indeed INT: you enter into temptation the indeed Mark 14:38 N-AMS GRK: ἔλθητε εἰς πειρασμόν τὸ μὲν NAS: that you may not come into temptation; the spirit KJV: into temptation. The spirit INT: you enter into temptation The indeed Luke 4:13 N-AMS GRK: συντελέσας πάντα πειρασμὸν ὁ διάβολος NAS: every temptation, he left KJV: all the temptation, he departed INT: having finished every temptation the devil Luke 11:4 N-AMS GRK: ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν ἀλλὰ ῥῦσαι NAS: to us. And lead us not into temptation.' KJV: not into temptation; but deliver INT: us into temptation but deliver Luke 22:40 N-AMS GRK: εἰσελθεῖν εἰς πειρασμόν NAS: that you may not enter into temptation. KJV: not into temptation. INT: to enter into temptation Luke 22:46 N-AMS GRK: εἰσέλθητε εἰς πειρασμόν NAS: that you may not enter into temptation. KJV: ye enter into temptation. INT: you might enter into temptation Galatians 4:14 N-AMS GRK: καὶ τὸν πειρασμὸν ὑμῶν ἐν NAS: and that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition KJV: And my temptation which was in my INT: and the test of you in 1 Timothy 6:9 N-AMS GRK: ἐμπίπτουσιν εἰς πειρασμὸν καὶ παγίδα NAS: fall into temptation and a snare KJV: fall into temptation and a snare, INT: fall into temptation and a snare James 1:12 N-AMS GRK: ὃς ὑπομένει πειρασμόν ὅτι δόκιμος NAS: perseveres under trial; for once he has been KJV: endureth temptation: for INT: who endures trial because proved 1 Peter 4:12 N-AMS GRK: πυρώσει πρὸς πειρασμὸν ὑμῖν γινομένῃ NAS: you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though KJV: is to try you, as INT: fire for trial to you [which is] taking place
Englishman's Concordance πειρασμόν (peirasmon) — 11 Occurrences Matthew 6:13 N-AMS GRK: ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν ἀλλὰ ῥῦσαι NAS: And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver KJV: not into temptation, but deliver INT: us into temptation but deliver Matthew 26:41 N-AMS GRK: εἰσέλθητε εἰς πειρασμόν τὸ μὲν NAS: that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit KJV: not into temptation: the spirit indeed INT: you enter into temptation the indeed Mark 14:38 N-AMS GRK: ἔλθητε εἰς πειρασμόν τὸ μὲν NAS: that you may not come into temptation; the spirit KJV: into temptation. The spirit INT: you enter into temptation The indeed Luke 4:13 N-AMS GRK: συντελέσας πάντα πειρασμὸν ὁ διάβολος NAS: every temptation, he left KJV: all the temptation, he departed INT: having finished every temptation the devil Luke 11:4 N-AMS GRK: ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν ἀλλὰ ῥῦσαι NAS: to us. And lead us not into temptation.' KJV: not into temptation; but deliver INT: us into temptation but deliver Luke 22:40 N-AMS GRK: εἰσελθεῖν εἰς πειρασμόν NAS: that you may not enter into temptation. KJV: not into temptation. INT: to enter into temptation Luke 22:46 N-AMS GRK: εἰσέλθητε εἰς πειρασμόν NAS: that you may not enter into temptation. KJV: ye enter into temptation. INT: you might enter into temptation Galatians 4:14 N-AMS GRK: καὶ τὸν πειρασμὸν ὑμῶν ἐν NAS: and that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition KJV: And my temptation which was in my INT: and the test of you in 1 Timothy 6:9 N-AMS GRK: ἐμπίπτουσιν εἰς πειρασμὸν καὶ παγίδα NAS: fall into temptation and a snare KJV: fall into temptation and a snare, INT: fall into temptation and a snare James 1:12 N-AMS GRK: ὃς ὑπομένει πειρασμόν ὅτι δόκιμος NAS: perseveres under trial; for once he has been KJV: endureth temptation: for INT: who endures trial because proved 1 Peter 4:12 N-AMS GRK: πυρώσει πρὸς πειρασμὸν ὑμῖν γινομένῃ NAS: you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though KJV: is to try you, as INT: fire for trial to you [which is] taking place
“This is who you are. It’s your nature.”
No, that’s your made-up list and you keep posting it whenever you get caught making an error. It’s all you have.
“As I said in a prior post...get some help vlad.”
You need some help with the facts - because you don’t know them. But you’ll just post a made-up list. It’s all you have.
“Have a good evening.”
I’ll have a great evening. You, on the other hand, will probably still be triggered about my tagline.
So you are satisfied that Jesus intended to found 38,000 churches, all with different interpretations of the Bible, which didn’t exist as it does now? The only thing that the many protestant churches agree on is their rejection of the Church’s authority. You know of course that most of the Bishops in the 4th century were Arians who denied the divinity of Jesus. So quoting various church fathers proves very little. You would mostlikely deny the Real Presence in the Eucharist also. Ignatius of Antioch in 107 called the one Church Catholic while on his way to be martyred. He was a disciple of John and Polycarp
Are you a politician?
We see that you didn’t address the content of the post you responded to; but went off on a tangent of your own choosing.
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