Another bitter, nasty article, posted by pre-Vat 2 Caths, aimed at people on the Internet.
Or, to put it more bluntly:
Posted on 11/28/2017 12:09:34 PM PST by ebb tide
“What do you base this claim upon?”
Truth.
“Do you know the death rates of Christians at this time?”
I know about the number of Christians - about 1 million by A.D. 90 according to historians. That means the number of saints in Heaven when most or all of the New Testament books were written would be small and little known or reckoned on earth because of distances apart on earth, communications, persecutions and secrecy and so on.
Also, when one considers the need for final theosis on the part of many early Christians the numbers in Heaven would be even smaller than first considered between A.D. 30-90. Hence, early Christians were so willing to undergo martyrdom because it meant Heaven without need of any lengthy (for lack of a better term to describe a process after death) final theosis.
“But there was the Scripture that was compiled to make the Bible so your argument falls flat.”
No, that fact in no way compromises what I said. What I said is still irrefutably true. I very deliberately used that example because it proved the point while also immediately cutting away the underpinnings of Protestantism.
“It has no substance or basis because the SCRIPTURE that makes up the Bible WAS in existence.”
The books were - yet you reject seven of them. Again, my point is proven.
Another bitter, nasty article, posted by pre-Vat 2 Caths, aimed at people on the Internet.
Or, to put it more bluntly:
Just remember: There were also no Protestants, no Protestant doctrines/heresies and no stupid anti-Catholics posting on the non-existent internet either.
Sources please.
That was a pleasure to read.
Don’t expect the addressee to take it to heart, but I enjoyed reading it at least!
Good luck for the rest of the thread.
Just remember: There were also no Roman Catholics, no Roman Catholics doctrines/heresies and no stupid anti-Protestants posting on the non-existent internet either.
I know most Roman Catholics only hear a small part of Acts at Mass (16.4% for those attending Sundays and Major Feasts over a three yr period) so they may not be familiar with these accounts.
I've been in church services where the Word of God was preached, people were convicted, repented and followed Christ.
I know that for that is what happened to me.
To me an alter call is just that....preaching the word...inviting people to respond to the message and follow Christ.
We see that all through the New Testament.
I don't know how Roman Catholics offer people a chance to respond to the message, but that's how Christians do.
How complicated do you want evangalisim to be?
“Sources please.”
Find them on your own. Many good encyclopedias will tell you the approximate number of Christians was about 1 million in A.D. 90.
Google is your friend.
You misspelled *opinion*.
“There were also no Roman Catholics, no Roman Catholics doctrines/heresies and no stupid anti-Protestants posting on the non-existent internet either.”
Actually, there were Catholics - the term “Roman Catholics” is a Protestant invention as I have repeatedly demonstrated here at FR.
There were no “Roman Catholics doctrines/heresies” since Catholics had no heresies and still don’t and “Roman Catholics” is a Protestant term and there were no Protestants.
“and no stupid anti-Protestants posting on the non-existent internet either.”
Granted - since Protestants wouldn’t show up for more than 1400 years there could, logically, not be any anti-Protestants until more than 1400 years after Christ founded the Catholic Church.
Did you forget?
Catholics don't do evangelism.
As far as how complicated they can make the simple gospel message, well, this is a start......
Paul disagrees with you...but I think you know that.
New Testament writers had an expectation that true faith will produce fruit for the kingdom.
Christ said,
11“Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.
12“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.
13“Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14“If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
John 14:11-15 NASB
What were His commandments?
“ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38“This is the great and foremost commandment. 39“The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ 40“On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 37-40 NASB
Paul explains in this passage the principle of coming to Christ through only faith. He calls this coming to God through faith the free gift. If it's free, there's nothing you can do to earn it. IT'S FREE.
We come to Christ through faith in Him and Him alone.
1Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.
3And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;
4and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;
5and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
6For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
7For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
11And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
13for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
15But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
16The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
17For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
18So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
19For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
20The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
21so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 5:1-21 NASB
That invalidates the entire post using vlad’s rules of internet debate!
Yet you and other Roman Catholics have run to the mods and the owner of this site crying about “Roman Catholic” bashing.
There were no altar calls until recent Evangelical Protestantism - since it is a Evangelical concept. Catholic calls for repentance (in the Bible, early Christian era, Medieval Christian era, modern times) use some of the same language but are not an appeal to easy belief nor Once Saved Always Saved nor anything else that Protestant.
As St. Paul himself demonstrated in his own words he knew he was saved, was being saved and would be saved. He did not believe in the “Once Saved Only Saved” concept that is at the bedrock of the “Altar Call” in Evangelical Protestantism. Hence, those who believe in OSAS are much more likely to put stock in Altar Calls as a standard practice.
Many Protestants are more than willing to state that “Altar Calls” are a recent invention. Example:
“The altar call, contrary to what many believe, is a recent phenomenon made popular by the early 1800’s preacher, Charles Finney. Finney asserted that men and woman could be persuaded into believing the gospel by simply creating the perfect storm. An appeal to the emotions, the right lighting and music, and voila…you had yourself a convert. OK, I may be taking it a little further than Finney expressed, but it is clear he intentionally appealed to the emotions, believing that men and women could will themselves into belief.” http://thefrontporch.org/2014/02/wheres-the-altar-call/
http://www.pastormattrichard.com/2012/07/did-you-know-that-altar-call-is-modern.html
You should learn your history.
Amazing they can put this together but not in the “2000 year” existence of their denomination have they bothered to put together a verse by verse exegetical position on the verses of the very book they claim to have given us.
I’m sorry to see that the Truth hurts you so.
***
Oh my, what a brilliant riposte.
What’s next, telling us that you’re rubber and we’re glue?
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