Expanded upon here
A never ending M. C. Escher quagmire.
Posted on 11/08/2015 11:19:38 AM PST by SeekAndFind
Christianity is under attack from a thousand different directions all at once, and yet many believers have turned their guns on one another. This war among Christians seems to intensify with each passing year, and believers are often fighting for some of the stupidest reasons you can possibly imagine. Meanwhile, people are leaving our churches in droves and church attendance is way down. This is especially true of younger Americans. According to an incredible new report that was just released by the Pew Research Center, only 27 percent of all Millennials (U.S. adults born since 1990) attend religious services on a weekly basis. When you go into many churches in America on Sunday mornings, all you see are “the greys”, and I am not talking about space aliens. But instead of focusing on fixing what has gone wrong, many Christians (including a number of very prominent ministers) spend most of their energy savagely attacking their brothers and sisters in Christ. This is absolutely disgraceful and it needs to stop.
America is on the exact same path to secularization that Europe has already gone down. The Pew Research Center discovered that the percentage of Americans who are “absolutely certain” that God exists declined from 71 percent in 2007 to 63 percent in 2014. Meanwhile, the percentage of those that are “religiously unaffiliated” rose from 16 percent in 2007 to 23 percent today.
Atheism, agnosticism and other religions are on the rise in America, and Christianity is in decline. And as I noted above, this is particularly true among our young people. Here are some more numbers from an excerpt that I pulled directly out of the Pew report…
Millennials -- especially the youngest Millennials, who have entered adulthood since the first Landscape Study was conducted -- are far less religious than their elders. For example, only 27% of Millennials say they attend religious services on a weekly basis, compared with 51% of adults in the Silent generation. Four-in-ten of the youngest Millennials say they pray every day, compared with six-in-ten Baby Boomers and two-thirds of members of the Silent generation. Only about half of Millennials say they believe in God with absolute certainty, compared with seven-in-ten Americans in the Silent and Baby Boom cohorts. And only about four-in-ten Millennials say religion is very important in their lives, compared with more than half in the older generational cohorts.
It has been projected that if current trends continue, the percentage of Americans attending church in 2050 will be about half of what it is today.
So those that are supposedly “leading the church” in America today need to wake up. What you are doing is not working. This nation is falling away from God, but many of you are spending much of your time and energy attacking one another.
Another thing that should deeply, deeply alarm Christian leaders is the fact that a large percentage of “believers” do not even seem to grasp the essential basics of the Christian faith. I am talking about things like who God is, the plan of salvation and the authority of the Bible. Here is more from Pew’s new report…
Among Christians, two-thirds say many religions can lead to eternal life, and most of them (50% of all Christians) say some non-Christian religions can lead to life everlasting. The view that some non-Christian faiths can lead to eternal life is held by roughly two-thirds of Catholics (68%) and mainline Protestants (65%), as well as 59% of Orthodox Christians. Fewer members of the historically black Protestant tradition (38%), evangelical Protestants (31%) and Mormons (31%) say some non-Christian religions can lead to salvation. Just 5% of Jehovah’s Witnesses say some non-Christian faiths can lead to eternal life.
If other religions can lead to eternal life, then why did Jesus have to die on the cross? Why couldn’t He have just come down and pointed us in the direction of all those other faiths? Many Christians don’t seem to understand that Jesus had to die for us on the cross because there is no other payment for our sins. He took the penalty that we deserved, and now He offers us a new life as a free gift.
Without Him, we would have absolutely no hope and no future. But because of Him, our sins are forgiven and we have been given eternal life.
But a very large percentage of believers does not understand this. Sadly, many Christians seem to think that you can believe whatever you want and it will all be okay in the end.
So as you can see, the church in America today is a mess. As a Christian myself, this pains me greatly.
But instead of working to fix the problems and praying for revival, many believers seem to take glee in tearing down their fellow Christians.
One of the bad things about the anonymity of the Internet is that it gives people an opportunity to show what is really in their hearts. And in many cases, what comes out of the hearts of many supposed “Christians” is absolutely frightening.
If you venture into places where believers hang out on Facebook, on Twitter, on YouTube and on various Christian websites all over the Internet, you will find some of the most vile things imaginable being said about specific individuals.
I have seen Christians use curse words to describe one another, and good, solid believers that I know personally have been called “whores”, “heretics” and “scumbags” just to give you a few examples. There are even some “Christians” that publicly wish for their brothers and sisters in Christ to die and go to hell.
This kind of thing should not be happening. In Matthew chapter 22, Jesus gave us instructions about how we are to treat one another…
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
On my websites I talk about some very hard things, but you will notice that I don’t attack specific individuals that are on the same side as me. In this day and age, it is imperative that we all figure out who our friends are. None of us are ever going to agree 100 percent on everything, and that is okay.
Yes, sometimes there are things that need to be addressed, but the vast majority of times they can be taken care of privately. I have had some very honest discussions with people that are on the same side as me in private, but I would never air that stuff publicly.
If we are going to make it through what is coming, we have got to learn how to love one another. And we have got to stop viciously attacking one another over stupid stuff. Yes, there are some things that are so important that they must never be compromised on, but most of the attacks that I see happening are over very petty things.
And without a doubt, there are times when it become necessary to rebuke someone. But when at all possible it should be done in private, and it should always be done in a spirit of love.
Because in the end, if we do not have love, we are nothing. You can have all of the “knowledge” in the world, and you can go around correcting everyone else, but if you are lacking in love you are just a baby.
This is a hard lesson that I had to learn, and hopefully what I have written here will be helpful for someone.
This war among Christians needs to stop. Our faith is under attack like never before, and we desperately need to learn how to start working together.
At some point, hopefully we will begin to actually live the words of our Savior in John chapter 13…
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
“Christ founded a church....the Catholic church.”
He founded a church that looks nothing like the current Catholic Church. Paul even said that church leaders had to be married (1 Tim, Titus). Revelation never implies a universal church on Earth as it calls out churches individually.
I don’t think Jesus would have approved of the behavior of the Catholic Church throughout history(Inquisition, selling indulgences, castrada, etc). I don’t think any church can claim to be one the Jesus created. Shoot, He was a Jew. IMHO
Of course not,,,all who are ignorant of Christianity cannot be held to Christian standards...if one is educated and rejects Catholicism, that person has some 'splainin to do. I judge no one, however, to willingly ignore the obvious truth, must have consequences of some sort.
Says who??? While the modern Catholic church doesn't resemble some villagers trying to interpret what the Apostles were saying, they still adhere to the original truths and teachings of Christ.....The buildings are different, but the teachings and truths remain EXACTLY as they were in Christ's time.
Now wait a minute. If someone can go to heaven ignorant of Roman Catholic Doctrine then there is something else that gets them into heaven. What is it?
The Catholic church is only 2,015 years old and many people went to Heaven before she even existed...Human behavior has always been the basic method of achieving salvation. Don't steal your neighbors stuff, don't fool with his wife, don't kill anyone except in defense of your own life.....normal decent behavior was probably the hallmark of what it took for salvation....I'm not the judge here, but God would have NEVER condemned His people to eternal punishment for something that they didn't know was wrong.
Thanks for confirming Catholicism teaches we are saved by our own works righteousness. Imagine that! Jesus didn't even have to die. If righteousness comes by the law then Christ is dead in vain...or haven't you heard that? We are saved by grace THROUGH faith and not of ourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.
Come out of that false religion and into the light of the glorious gospel of the grace of God.
You have convinced yourself that some man made church of what's happening now is the way to go rather than the church that Jesus Himself founded....good luck with that asinine theory but I will stick with Jesus and His way....
At the Transfiguration, Christ was talking with Moses and
Elijah — it’s right there in the Bible. How did they get to heaven and be able to talk with Jesus?
Nope! The “way to go” is through faith in Jesus Christ who is THE way the truth and the life. If you really were sticking with Jesus and his way you would never have just gotten done claiming people are saved by their own works of righteousness.
My faith is in Christ not any church. In fact...all those who follow him are his church - his called out ones. Forget about trusting others to save you - including yourself - and trust in what Jesus has done for you. Not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to his mercy he saved us.
Hebrews 4:10 "For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his"
If you REALLY have faith in Jesus Christ, why then, do you doubt the path that He laid out for us......it's plain and clear, and has been for over 2,000 years, that He designed, instituted, guided, protected His church through many periods of tribulation.....and that includes the protestant {note the word} revolution.....You can't just decide...after 1,600 years of Christianity, that they have been doing it all wrong and that you can make up your own rules....it CAN'T POSSIBLY work that way....In our little town of 20,000 there are probably 20 different "denominations" all of which assume they are the right way....they aren't; and the Catholic church is still, and has always been the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, AND APOSTOLIC church founded by Christ. You don't get to make up your own rules when it comes to being an American and you don't get to make up your own rules when it comes to being a Christian....
That is 'mind reading', and an inaccurate, poor example in end result ---but still example of what is strongly advised against engaging in, on this forum.
The person you have been conversing with has many times laid out the reasons for why she believes as she does.
You do not get to come along and redefine her own reasons for her.
That's one hell of a strawman you have there, right in the very center of your major (and oft-repeated, even though much disproved, already been falsified) thesis.
Can you ever say ANYTHING else?
If I REALLY have faith in Christ then according to you I have to be a Roman Catholic?
That brings us right back to the point we were discussing and which you repeatedly sidestepped. You claimed people were saved by obeying the commandments, being “good” and generally being worthy of salvation. You claimed if someone rejected the Roman Catholic church they were rejecting Jesus Christ. When I reminded you that your OWN Catechism contradicts you and you were “doing it your own way”, you changed the subject.
Now you want to come back full circle and presume I can’t really have faith in Jesus Christ if I reject the Roman Catholic church. Trying to dialog with you is akin to running in circles - we never get anywhere. I really have better things to occupy my time than playing this game. You know what I believe and why I believe it. I’m pretty sure I know your belief. We’re at a stalemate - as usual.
Have a good night.
How backwards can one be?
I redefined nothing, she has come to her conclusions based on reasons that she assumes are correct...I seek only to convince her that her reasoning is in error...it is.
By who??...someone who left the Catholic Church and decided to do it their own way??
Sure you did. Denying that you did so doesn't work.
Assume? That's where the problem is in your own attempts to redefine her reasons into mere strawmen of your own making ---like I told you.
It wasn't about assuming anything much on her part, but instead she has legitimate reasons. Unless you can some how adequately deal with those reasons --- everything will just keep going around in big circles.
So you say. Not interested in the self-justifications coupled with arguments of mere assertion.
They have indeed. I have been an Episcopalian for 45 years and the Church has changed so much.
I was in the Diocese of Dallas which is fairly conservative but my individual parish was liberal.
I stayed because I liked my Parish and couldn’t imagine going anywhere else. But I did go somewhere else. I went to Maui where I’ve been attending the Church by the Sea (Episcopal). Not being a member I don’t know much about the philosophy of the church and that’s the way I want it.
My priest friend from the Irving Church is a liberal nutcase.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.