Expanded upon here
A never ending M. C. Escher quagmire.
Posted on 11/08/2015 11:19:38 AM PST by SeekAndFind
“Christ founded a church....the Catholic church.”
He founded a church that looks nothing like the current Catholic Church. Paul even said that church leaders had to be married (1 Tim, Titus). Revelation never implies a universal church on Earth as it calls out churches individually.
I don’t think Jesus would have approved of the behavior of the Catholic Church throughout history(Inquisition, selling indulgences, castrada, etc). I don’t think any church can claim to be one the Jesus created. Shoot, He was a Jew. IMHO
Of course not,,,all who are ignorant of Christianity cannot be held to Christian standards...if one is educated and rejects Catholicism, that person has some 'splainin to do. I judge no one, however, to willingly ignore the obvious truth, must have consequences of some sort.
Says who??? While the modern Catholic church doesn't resemble some villagers trying to interpret what the Apostles were saying, they still adhere to the original truths and teachings of Christ.....The buildings are different, but the teachings and truths remain EXACTLY as they were in Christ's time.
Now wait a minute. If someone can go to heaven ignorant of Roman Catholic Doctrine then there is something else that gets them into heaven. What is it?
The Catholic church is only 2,015 years old and many people went to Heaven before she even existed...Human behavior has always been the basic method of achieving salvation. Don't steal your neighbors stuff, don't fool with his wife, don't kill anyone except in defense of your own life.....normal decent behavior was probably the hallmark of what it took for salvation....I'm not the judge here, but God would have NEVER condemned His people to eternal punishment for something that they didn't know was wrong.
Thanks for confirming Catholicism teaches we are saved by our own works righteousness. Imagine that! Jesus didn't even have to die. If righteousness comes by the law then Christ is dead in vain...or haven't you heard that? We are saved by grace THROUGH faith and not of ourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.
Come out of that false religion and into the light of the glorious gospel of the grace of God.
You have convinced yourself that some man made church of what's happening now is the way to go rather than the church that Jesus Himself founded....good luck with that asinine theory but I will stick with Jesus and His way....
At the Transfiguration, Christ was talking with Moses and
Elijah — it’s right there in the Bible. How did they get to heaven and be able to talk with Jesus?
Nope! The “way to go” is through faith in Jesus Christ who is THE way the truth and the life. If you really were sticking with Jesus and his way you would never have just gotten done claiming people are saved by their own works of righteousness.
My faith is in Christ not any church. In fact...all those who follow him are his church - his called out ones. Forget about trusting others to save you - including yourself - and trust in what Jesus has done for you. Not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to his mercy he saved us.
Hebrews 4:10 "For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his"
If you REALLY have faith in Jesus Christ, why then, do you doubt the path that He laid out for us......it's plain and clear, and has been for over 2,000 years, that He designed, instituted, guided, protected His church through many periods of tribulation.....and that includes the protestant {note the word} revolution.....You can't just decide...after 1,600 years of Christianity, that they have been doing it all wrong and that you can make up your own rules....it CAN'T POSSIBLY work that way....In our little town of 20,000 there are probably 20 different "denominations" all of which assume they are the right way....they aren't; and the Catholic church is still, and has always been the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, AND APOSTOLIC church founded by Christ. You don't get to make up your own rules when it comes to being an American and you don't get to make up your own rules when it comes to being a Christian....
That is 'mind reading', and an inaccurate, poor example in end result ---but still example of what is strongly advised against engaging in, on this forum.
The person you have been conversing with has many times laid out the reasons for why she believes as she does.
You do not get to come along and redefine her own reasons for her.
That's one hell of a strawman you have there, right in the very center of your major (and oft-repeated, even though much disproved, already been falsified) thesis.
Can you ever say ANYTHING else?
If I REALLY have faith in Christ then according to you I have to be a Roman Catholic?
That brings us right back to the point we were discussing and which you repeatedly sidestepped. You claimed people were saved by obeying the commandments, being “good” and generally being worthy of salvation. You claimed if someone rejected the Roman Catholic church they were rejecting Jesus Christ. When I reminded you that your OWN Catechism contradicts you and you were “doing it your own way”, you changed the subject.
Now you want to come back full circle and presume I can’t really have faith in Jesus Christ if I reject the Roman Catholic church. Trying to dialog with you is akin to running in circles - we never get anywhere. I really have better things to occupy my time than playing this game. You know what I believe and why I believe it. I’m pretty sure I know your belief. We’re at a stalemate - as usual.
Have a good night.
How backwards can one be?
I redefined nothing, she has come to her conclusions based on reasons that she assumes are correct...I seek only to convince her that her reasoning is in error...it is.
By who??...someone who left the Catholic Church and decided to do it their own way??
Sure you did. Denying that you did so doesn't work.
Assume? That's where the problem is in your own attempts to redefine her reasons into mere strawmen of your own making ---like I told you.
It wasn't about assuming anything much on her part, but instead she has legitimate reasons. Unless you can some how adequately deal with those reasons --- everything will just keep going around in big circles.
So you say. Not interested in the self-justifications coupled with arguments of mere assertion.
They have indeed. I have been an Episcopalian for 45 years and the Church has changed so much.
I was in the Diocese of Dallas which is fairly conservative but my individual parish was liberal.
I stayed because I liked my Parish and couldn’t imagine going anywhere else. But I did go somewhere else. I went to Maui where I’ve been attending the Church by the Sea (Episcopal). Not being a member I don’t know much about the philosophy of the church and that’s the way I want it.
My priest friend from the Irving Church is a liberal nutcase.
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